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  • From: Geneva <gggreen AT mindspring.com>
  • To: Randall Austin <ra41717 AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: Blair Christian <blair.christian AT gmail.com>, Orange County Beekeepers <ocba AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [ocba] Pollination discussion...
  • Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2011 18:51:06 -0400

Randall
Thank you for your clear response to a difficult issue. I agree that our researchers are out there working hard and ruling out lots of theories. One simply has to attend a state or national meeting to hear in detail about their research and findings. I do think that the recent research in the long term and synergistic effects of pesticides are affecting the health of our honey bees, oddly enough some fungicides are particularly harmful. But I believe science will win out even if just to realize that CCD was a lethal combination of factors.
On a personal note I have often wondered if you and Lewis were both harlots, wait, maybe I mean marmots.
Thanks
Geneva

On Oct 20, 2011, at 6:09 PM, Randall Austin wrote:

Blair,

On the CCD question:
The IAPV (Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus) theory of CCD was very popular.
Then the Nosema Ceranae theory was very popular. The Cell Phone theory
was very popular. The monoculture/nutrition theory was very popular. As
you've seen, the neonicotinoid theory is very popular. The list goes on
and on.
I have no idea what the real answer is, but I do know that all of these
theories, including the pesticide theory, have been researched and the
scientific evidence simply is not there. Some people say this is because
the researchers are harlots in the pockets of big business, but you and
I, at least, know that is utter nonsense (I work for Big Pharma and I'm
not a harlot, and I've never hired an academic harlot). The only thing
that academicians enjoy more than proving their theory is correct is
being able to prove that their colleague's theory is wrong. So if
neonicotinoids (or cell phones etc.) are really the answer then
researchers would be clamoring over themselves to prove that they've
found the truth and the naysayers are wrong.

The absolute worst thing we could do is focus on a popular but wrong
solution and thereby create worse problems (as when parents let movie
stars convince them not to vaccinate their children). So for me, I'm
waiting for the experts (like our friends at NC State) to rule out the
interesting and plausible yet wrong theories and tell us what the proven
answers are. We can be patient --- there haven't been any confirmed
cases of CCD in North Carolina. Please note that I don't doubt that
there may be marketed pesticides that are poorly tested with respect to
bee health and are inappropriately applied, but the question you are
asking is specifically about CCD.

On the honey bee as pollinator question:
You are correct that honey bees aren't native to North America, but many
(most?) of the foods we eat aren't native to North America either. A
classic example is almonds --- they are Mediterranean, and depend on
honey bees for pollination. So when they bloom in February, commercial
beekeepers truck around 2 million hives to California. Many of our
favorite foods evolved symbiotically with specific pollinators, with
honey bees being just one example.
Another reason that honey bees are uniquely valuable as pollinators is
that, unlike most other pollinating insects, they carry their
populations over the winter. That means that late winter/early spring
build-up is very rapid, allowing them to have maximum populations (and
pollinate vast amounts of crops) early in the year while other insect
populations are just getting started. Almonds are a great example of
this as well, but other early-flowering plants (blueberries,
strawberries, etc.) definitely benefit.
A third reason that honey bees are especially important pollinators is
that they are easily transportable. Mason bees are terrific pollinators,
but as far as I know you cannot successfully move their homes from crop
to crop, following the bloom.
A fourth reason is the size of the pollination unit. I've read that a
single mason bee can do the pollination work of 120 honey bees. That's
great, but they are solitary bees. If I had a cluster of 50 of them,
they'd do the work of 6,000 honey bees... but I've got 50,000 honey bees
in a single box. Per bee they aren't so hot but per hive they can't be beat.
Please don't think I'm a bee bigot --- other pollinators (bats, yellow
jackets, carrion flies, etc. etc.) are critically important for the
plants they pollinate. For example, honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes
(the flower flute is too long for their tongues) but bumble bees are
terrific at it. But for the plants that honey bees are best at, there
simply aren't equally good substitutes. I saw a video about a region in
China that lost all of its honey bees. Now the farmers must pollinate
their pears by hand with little brushes made of chicken feathers. They
looked very tired.
And yes, there is lots of effort dedicated to alternative pollinators
--- they are big business. Bumble bees and mason bees are just two
examples. They just don't get much air time in the popular press. But
there is a lot of info on them put out by Cooperative Extension.

Randall Austin

"I cannot give any scientist of any age better advice than this: the
intensity of a conviction that a hypothesis is true has no bearing over
whether it is true or not." -- Peter Medawar
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority
of the people." -- Giordano Bruno



On 10/19/2011 9:59 AM, Blair Christian wrote:
I saw a documentary on Netflix streaming last night called “Vanishing
of the Bees”http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Vanishing-of-the-Bees/70166291
It’s the first partial explanation I’ve seen for “CCD” (colony
collapse disorder). It’s pretty informative and presents a big
picture of some issues in the US ag system and relates it to other bee
colony issues in other parts of the world. CCD is the American name,
but the same symptoms have occurred all over the world, starting at
least 5 years before US beekeepers made the press.
A main argument they make is that new pesticides which have sublethal
effects to bees are a big part of CCD. These leave the bees more
susceptible to other issues (kind of analogous to how AIDS weakens the
immune system, where one doesn’t die directly from AIDS, but
indirectly from it because it compromises your immune system),
Specifically they point to two new products from a class of pesticides
called neonicotinoids that were introduced by Bayer and another
company and were related to bee colony deaths in Europe starting in
about 2000 (US CCD hit the news in about 2006).
I thought I’d pass it along since legitimate causes of CCD didn’t get
any press, just the hype beforehand.

I know there are some in-the-loop entomologists on this listserv.
Does anybody have any criticism of the science? Are there any
randomized studies? (I'm a statistician, so I know a little about
clinical trials) Apparently there is a loop hole for pesticide
companies. To show a pesticide is "bee safe" they only have to show
that it doesn't directly kill bees in some short period of time. As a
backlash, it looked like some commercial pollinators were actually
starting to deny farmers services based on the pesticides they use...

Lastly, a big question that I've always wondered about: Why are we so
focused on using honeybees for pollination? Honeybees weren't native
to the Americas. Are there any alternative pollinator programs out
there? Do we just use honeybees for pollination because they scale
well? From a more holistic and ecological perspective, it seems like
having multiple pollination species would be a big benefit. I love my
bees, but I'm just curious.
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_______________________________________________
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North Carolina Beekeeping
http://www.theocba.org/

Geneva Green
919 475 7668
7211 Wilkerson Road
Cedar Grove, NC 27231
gggreen AT mindspring.com







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