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Chronological Thread  
  • From: Karen Nesbitt <spanishequines@yahoo.com>
  • To: MSAR <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [MSAR] Volunteer Mayhem? Yeah, enough already...
  • Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 07:48:10 -0700 (PDT)

RESPONDING to:
Today's Topics:

   1. Spontaneous Volunteers (Jorene Downs)
   2. Re: Spontaneous Volunteers (Dick L Sweet)


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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 06:59:53 -0700
From: "Jorene Downs" <Jorene@CEOates.com>
Subject: [MSAR] Spontaneous Volunteers
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <009301cc2f52$54229cc0$fc67d640$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Some authorities will use spontaneous volunteers. Some SAR organizations
work independent of the legal authorities and may/may not use spontaneous
volunteers. Some authorities / organizations have a policy to not allow
spontaneous volunteers to help for numerous reasons. Some of those reasons
include the liability of using untrained and likely ill equipped searchers,
the need for extra management and staff just to organize and provide some
quick basic training to those spontaneous volunteers, and the need for
sufficient trained personnel to supervise them in the field.



Some management will strictly limit participation to "safe" tasks such as
distribution of fliers or other support functions. Another fairly safe
assignment is "road search" on specific main roads - less likely to get lost
-  with at least 2 "searcher passengers" assigned to a vehicle so the driver
can focus on safe driving.



Just processing the spontaneous volunteers takes extra time while you try to
figure out how you can [hopefully] safely and effectively use each
individual, since records for each spontaneous volunteer's knowledge, skills
and abilities are not already in the system. Meanwhile management is
rearranging available trained personnel missions to set personnel aside to
supervise spontaneous volunteers in the easiest terrain, etc. And Logistics
is scrambling to adjust to having X more people to potentially transport,
provide water to since they didn't bring near enough, addressing traffic
control, parking and staging area issues, etc.



Yes, having lots of unexpected spontaneous volunteers show up can create
"mayhem" - or at least what seems like a chaotic period of adjustment - as
management and staff now have a lot of changes to make. Any authority /
organization accustomed to having spontaneous volunteers show up is likely
to already have processes in place ... and hopefully enough trained
personnel to perform the additional tasks since you can't really predict how
many folks will show up.



Management may also take spontaneous volunteer "applicant" information 1
day, provide some training, identify some requirements and assign to a
staging area for deployment the next day ... and meanwhile they may also run
a background check. When you have several hundred (or more) show up this
preplan allows the time to be better organized and more effectively use
those spontaneous volunteers. You can reroute all spontaneous volunteers to
the separate processing location. Meanwhile on day 1 you send out your
trained personnel.



All of this is incident and perhaps even mission-specific. There are also
circumstances when it is best to use traffic and crowd control to keep the
"I want to help!" untrained folks back.



~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Jorene Downs

SAR, CERT, Emergency Communications

Mounted SAR

http://www.ceoates.com/msar

KJ6JCD





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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:15:19 -0400
From: "Dick L Sweet" <dsweet.fsm@voyager.net>
Subject: Re: [MSAR] Spontaneous Volunteers
To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <00a301cc2f54$823e48a0$86bad9e0$@fsm@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hey Karen....

Enough is enough, don't you think..they don 't read or don't care and don't
get it.......they believe they are in charge????

Hope you are there if we ever need you.....

Dick


DICK, I gotta run with you on this one simply for the fact of what Jorene said here and I qoute:
 
Yes, having lots of unexpected spontaneous volunteers show up can create
"mayhem" - or at least what seems like a chaotic period of adjustment - as
management and staff now have a lot of changes to make. Any authority /
organization accustomed to having spontaneous volunteers show up is likely
to already have processes in place ... and hopefully enough trained
personnel to perform the additional tasks since you can't really predict how
many folks will show up."
----
Jorene, its not a social event.. no one is asking for a meal and coffee.  Gotta say this and that is the way I see this is that IF the THEY are not prepared to handle the unexpected "volunteers"  "They" simply are not prepared.   There were other things you said that was off base of what we were talkign, but I know you were tryign to make a point form the establishment side and this is where teh establishment and the ones seeing what I was saying part company.
 
In my opinion if the volunteers are regulated.. they are not the kind of volunteeers I was talking about.   Guess maybe I did not make that clear, but Dick caught it!
 
The other thing to add to this is I dont know how anyone cannot see their job being threatened in todays economy and with ever esculating National Debt.  Hello.. all jobs are threatened.  Let me run this by you...
 
Im probablly not going spell this out as good as I would like.. but  run with me as I use big numbers because some people  will truly not get it if I dont.
...Companies are not giving a rats patoot, including the government on who they fire if they can do things more cheaply.  Let me example this.  A company that employs several thousand employees could easily find excuses to fire people.  In a large enough company now mind you this is an approximation based on a person who gets the national average health insurance.  Let me run this by you.... the company figures itself out large enough to let go 76 people and can save a bundle on new hires....  By doing so, the money they save paying the current rate of health insurance to those currently in their employ literally saves them 2 million dollars on the day those folks get let go.  Now mind you they gotta play the unemployment games  later.. but they got that figured out too and those people screwed in the firing have to fight for their unemployment on those perverbial chocked up charges of  say how the "lame" employ spilled coffee on a computer or some lame thing causing loss of equipment that but the loss percentage of actual money is a squirt in the bucket compared to that of the savings of getting rid of that employ  with the costs of all his insurance and not having to pay the current rate of insurance and go for the 90 days that a newb would come in that is if they are hired and paid. And that 90 days.. what employ gets insurance anyway??? so then now the company is up another 2 mil to FOUR in savings.  When you add the balast of cost say some employees used on their health care and now the company feels also now these employes are a risk to them just on that, WOW, the savings to the company gets bigger and the minor booboo the employee did turns major.   Meanwhile back at the ranch the let go unemployee gets a notice form the government that is tryign to redistribute the weatlh of the country that he now has to pay a fine because he doees not have health insurance, and the only "job" he/she has  is volunteer work that they do not collect pay for, but are certified up the horses fanny feathers to no avail.
 
Not done yet...
Then the they that is the company...  run that game every 90 days and the turn over is emmense, but the savings is great to the bottom line....  If you dont think big companies are not pulling this.. ya'll are sleeping through economics 101.  And the small companies are cutting throats and or getting killed too and why?   Well, maybe I did not put it eloquently enough, but in todays ecomomy. EVERY job is threatened.  Now you got  a pile of unemployeed uninsured so and sos trying to get a job and all they can find is volunteer work... I call that totally unconstitutional..
 
Dick, I beleive you passed passed economics.. and they that took it down did not even fire a shot.     They that were not listening.. did not see it coming.  They that beleive the Twin Towers was the first attack on US soil failed US history big time and THEY are probably the biggest slew of uneducated voters this country has ever seen.  They that are not listening are throwing this country to the dogs wallering in socialism.. now that is MAYHAM.
 
So what I see Jorene saying above there is that me and you should not stop on the side of the road to help at the scene of an accident, we should just let them die and let the establishment clean up after it.. even if we are the first on the scene, oh GOD FORBID we get on a cell phone to make a call to 9-11....lets just drive by shall we?.. ... after all now  becasue Jorene was calling us regulated volunteers  and well accordign to her comprehension, we have to have appliications and a bunch of certificates  of BS before we can dive in...   Tell ya what Dick..yup, thats what she is saying...Im sorry, but I call that criminal.  I call  it socialism, marxism and mayhem.
 
Jorene, sorry, you missed what I was saying in the previous post and then you only tried to apply the book knowledge of your job.   Which, I guess is understandable since you have to go by that book.  No hard feelings or pokes but Dick got it right..  is was your definition and not ours.  And there she goes on that liability issue...God forbid save a life and someone act out of courage and then to be sued in the process.. do the righteous thing, get screwed anyway.. Owell. that truly is the chanc eanyone takes anyway as we live and breath inthis overregulated game of whose got insurance.  Its all about money and not about flesh.

 
Dick...  there we are.. the first and only ones at the scene and in control...the establisment is sitting at a desk counting pennies they dont have and maybe waiting for a call that they are not prepared for.  Is there not a cause or a point to call them when they cant do anything about it anyway?  I beleive you have been there and expereinced exactly that and that too is why you saw where I was coming from.
 
Jorene.. the way I see it.. those regulated certified volunteers are eventually gonna say.. screw this, and be wanting to get paid for it.
 
Pearls and swine.........GOD BLESS, love that...!!!
 
So Dick, how do you feel about  the title of the up and coming what could be CZAR OF VOLUNTEERING?  Downright UnAmerican aint it.  
 
For what thats saying.. definitionof CZAR ->>>> 
–noun
1.
an emperor or king.
2.
( often initial capital letter ) the former emperor of russia.
3.
an autocratic ruler or leader.
EXPAND
4.
any person exercising great authority or power in a particular field: a czar of industry.
COLLAPSE
Also, tsar, tzar.


Origin:
1545–55; < Russian tsar', Old Russian tsĭsarĭ  emperor, king (akin to OCS tsěsarĭ ) < Gothic kaisar  emperor (< Greek or L); Greek kaîsar  < Latin Caesar caesar
 
 
Like ya said Dick.. enough of that already.  Next trail ride if you and mine ever connect.. .. do  ya think theres gonna be a  pop machine behind that lemon tree?  Maybe its a clue....but I dont thing some are ever gonna get it.
 
        Karen Nesbitt -  VMSAR - Iroquois County - Illinois
  Proverbs tells us the path of the righteous is like the dawn. It gleams and shines brighter and brighter until it is like the risen sun during the day.
In the story of the good Samaritain, the Samaritan was despised.  Guess today that goes without saying.  But he did save a life and did the right thing.
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