Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

market-farming - Re: [Market-farming] was CSA worker payment: now interns

market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Market Farming

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Todd Lister <toddlister1 AT gmail.com>
  • To: Market Farming <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Market-farming] was CSA worker payment: now interns
  • Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:23:23 -0400

Andy, 
"Compensation of people on a farm seems to be the one area where many of
the hippie left wing alternative activist "organic" farmers hold onto
their wallet even more tightly than the conservative conventional
farmers they often vilify.  Neither group seems comfortable with
adequately compensating people for the value they bring to the farm
enterprise, but at least the conventional farmers generally recognize
that you should pay the people who work for you.."

I am the epitome of of your hippie left wing alternative activist "organic" farmers and I also have  30+ years in woodworking/carpentry. I see no basis for your generalization. I would never expect anyone who does anything for me to do it for free.  I pay $10 an hour + provide large amounts of food to anyone who helps me.
Additionally, Your characterization sounds like you consider conservative conventional farmers to be better somehow. I would respectfully disagree. Why the parentheses around organic? Presumably you use as many chemicals as you can find. Conventional farming has just about destroyed the land in this country and judging those who aren't conservative is as ugly in farming as it is in politics.
Todd

On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 3:10 AM, Andy Fellenz <fellenz AT fltg.net> wrote:
Allan,

We obviously have different perspectives on this issue, and I expect
that neither of us will convert the other.

Compensation of people on a farm seems to be the one area where many of
the hippie left wing alternative activist "organic" farmers hold onto
their wallet even more tightly than the conservative conventional
farmers they often vilify.  Neither group seems comfortable with
adequately compensating people for the value they bring to the farm
enterprise, but at least the conventional farmers generally recognize
that you should pay the people who work for you..

Re the student at a university argument.  When I was an undergrad, I
paid tuition, but mainly went to class and didn't do any research which
created significant value or new knowledge.  As a grad student I was
paid - tuition reimbursement and a stipend which was above minimum wage
for the hours I worked and I created value for the university through
the course materials I developed or the research equipment I
fabricated.   Taking this analogy to farming - an unpaid experience
could be just the learning part - how to run a piece of equipment, how
to do a task, the basics of soil science, etc..., but when it crosses
over into 100's of  hours doing specific tasks, we are past the basic
learning phase and into the realm of providing economic benefit to the
farmer, just like in grad school where the student is doing grunt work
on a professor's research program which will yield the student a
thesis,  dissertation or some publications while also yielding real
benefits to the professor.  Another comparison could be medicine - the
student pays to go to medical school, they get paid to do a residency.

Regarding your last sentence.  I haven't met anyone yet in farming who
is in it purely for the money.  I know the people who work on my farm
aren't - several have made substantially more with off-farm jobs, but
choose to work on the farm because it better meets their needs than a
more remunerative job would.  Finally,  I don't see how it is possible
to develop a truly sustainable small scale farming system when the base
of the system in many cases is unpaid or underpaid labor.  A truly
sustainable system requires that people can make a living.

Andy

Allan.Balliett wrote:
>> Personally, my perspective is that if you have someone doing work on
>> your farm they deserve to be compensated and that training is a cost of
>> doing business. I don't accept the "we can't afford to pay them" excuse
>>
> >from Walmart, McDonalds or the company down the street and I don't think
>
>> it should be used by a farmer.
>>
>
> Andy -
>
> A number of the farmers that started eco-ag farming back in the 80's
> when we did no longer offer paid internships. They still offer
> internships, but their logic is sort of a flip of your own. The do
> not think that farm internships should be paid internships.
>
> They say that students are not paid by universities to learn, so why
> should a farmer pay a student farmer to learn?
>
> The answer for us used to be that we thought it important that our
> work on the farm was more valueable to everyone if in the process of
> producing our crops we also produced new farmers.
>
> Drawing from similar experiences as shaped the position of the
> farmers I mentioned above, we've decided over the years that we can't
> really afford a lot of the considerations interns bring to the mix
> and prefer to work with people who come to the farm for 'just a job.'
>
> I have to admit that I find it eerie working on the farm with people
> who are more interested in their wages than they are in plants or
> animals.
>
> -Allan in WV
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Market-farming mailing list
Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming





Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page