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  • From: "Justin Dombrowski" <jedombrowski AT msn.com>
  • To: "'Corpus-Paul'" <corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Cc: shema777 AT aol.com, gs AT umjc.org, ravdap AT aol.com, nanosmd AT comcast.net, tikmin AT tikkunministries.org, mwilson AT faith.gordon.edu
  • Subject: Re: [Corpus-Paul] Question on 'Paul and Judaism' by Mark Nanos
  • Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2005 10:35:19 -0500

Why wouldn’t η πρωτη εκεινη in Heb 8.7 be an ellipsis back to διαθηκη in 8.6, and similarly with καινην in v.13 and την πρωτην and η πρωτη  in v.13 and 9.1, 2?  What else would those refer to?

 

I hear what you say about Jesus in Matt 5, but what do you do with Paul in Rom 7, esp. v. 6 which says “νυνι δε κατηργηθημεν απο του νομου...”?  That’s a big statement. 

 

--Justin

 


From: corpus-paul-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:corpus-paul-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of gogo1320
Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2005 4:26 AM
To: corpus-paul AT lists.ibiblio.org
Cc: shema777 AT aol.com; gs AT umjc.org; ravdap AT aol.com; nanosmd AT comcast.net; tikmin AT tikkunministries.org; mwilson AT faith.gordon.edu
Subject: [Corpus-Paul] Question on 'Paul and Judaism' by Mark Nanos

 

Dear Pastor Tim Gallant,

 

I happen to be up late tonight reading the dialog between yourself and Mark Nanos. What really sparked my interest was when you wrote: "The difference on that score is not that the Gentiles have replaced Israel, but rather that Gentiles have been included in one people with Israel." I find this very valuable because i know that Mark himself dissagress that Gentiles are grafted into Israel through my own dialog with him. Where I differ with you (I am assuming) is that the Torah is still to be observed under the New Covenant (Matthew 5:17; Jeremiah 31:31ff; Hebrews 8:7-13). Notice here in the verses cited from Hebrews that in the Greek of those verses, the word "covenant" is missing (vs. 7, 13). They have been supplied by the translators which the writter did not place there. It actually changes the meaning of the verses for the writer to the Hebrews has the sacrificial system and the priesthood in view not the entire Mosaic Covenant. Jesus (Yeshua Messiah) said that he did not come to "abolish" the Torah or the Prophets. Not one jot or tittle shall pass from the Torah until all has been fulfilled. Of course, Protestant theology says that Jesus fulfilled the Law there it is no longer to be obeyed, such as an order that is placed and then "fulfilled" where afterwards you can discard the original order. But that is exactly what Jesus said he didn't come to do. That is essentially abolishing the Torah! And how are we to fulfill something that is abolished (Romans 8:4)? And does faith abolish the Torah (see Romans 3:31)? All of this in view, including Paul's lifestyle of Torah observance as well as other believing Jews (Acts 21:20-24), would it not make sense that Gentiles who are grafted into Israel be called to keep the same Torah as Israel keeps? Could we look at Acts 15 as saying that a Gentile doesn't have to come under the ritual of proselyte conversion (i.e. circumcision) and be oblidged to observe the whole Torah (Gal. 5:3) which would include both the Written and Oral Torahs, but keep some minimal requirements to maintain table fellowship with the Jewish People, while continuing to come to synagogue on Shabbat to hear and learn and might me say do more Torah (Acts 15:21)? It would seem to be what Jesus had in mind for the Gentiles when he commissioned his apostles to disciple them and to teach them to observe all things whatsoever he had commanded the 11 apostles (the 12 minus Judas). Let me know what you think.

 

P.S.

I'm going to carbon copy this to Mark Nanos, and probably to some others also.

 

 

Yeshua's talmid,

Donald C. Rogan

 




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