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  • From: "Liz Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
  • To: "Corpus-paul" <corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: RE: Gal 2:16 ( MM)
  • Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 22:51:00 -0400


> From: Mike Myers: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:11 PM


> Liz, A quick answer is all I have time for at the moment.
>
> Yes and no. The NT throughout makes clear that one of the primary
> goals of the gospel, and of y'shua's mission, is to gather Israel
> (Matt 15:24, Mark 7:27, Paul throughout, James 1:1, Revelations
> throughout, among other pericopes that elude me at the moment).
What do you mean by Israel then? Not Jews, I take it.

> Strategy concerns were key to Paul; he is nothing if not a
> strategist. To him, the overriding issue was faith in Christ as
> Shiloh (Gen 49:10). This objective always trumped the relative
> importance of controverted points of law-keeping. These interminable
> squabbles (and worse) appear to be something that he had to deal
> with constantly. He did seem to get pretty cranky about it
> occasionally.
>
> Circumcision was an exemplary case. To most non-Jews in 1CE, oc,
> this was simply asking too much. Dietary regulations, too, were
> divisive. So Paul seems to have given in here, for strategic
> reasons. And according to Acts anyway, James allowed him to do this.
> Shabbat he reinterpreted somewhat, evidently -- this is a somewhat
> gray area, unlike circumcision and the dietary legislation.
> But again, since these were all tokens of separateness, they were
> problematic. God's will was now to gather Israel: some (most?) of
> scattered Israel was not in synch with these tokens. Therefore,
> since the gathering is the main thing, the tokens of separateness
> are now devalued -- to Paul. Strategy of the apostle to the
> "Gentiles" -- or, in other and more precise words, to the scattered
> of Jacob and the strangers.

Your description of Paul makes sense to me. What is curious is your
assignment of non-Jewish Israel to the Gentiles. That is indeed peculiar.
When Jesus referred to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" was he
including the Samaritans? I don't think he was. Yet, Paul didn't preach to
Samaritans, did he? Maybe a better distinction than the Jew/Gentile
distinction is the circumcised - uncircumcised distinction. Paul was the
apostle to the uncircumcised.


<snipped Mike's points -- with which I agree --about streamlining the law>
>
>
> [points snipped, responded to later...]
>
> Liz wrote:
>

> Well, I'm not sure how much this [the notion of an unchanging god] is true
of the Orthodox. They seem
> to hold to an unchanging REVELATION of God, de facto anyway, if not
> to the unchanging God -- the latter, I certainly agree, being very
> hard to reconcile with Tenach.
Oh, well, you have to differentiate between an unchanging torah and a
changable god.

>
>
> You wrote:
>
> "The Greek notion of a god without a physical body, who was perfect,
> might have influenced Paul's followers tho. In GJohn I think the
> view is expressed that God is spiritual, non-corporeal. That is a
> Greek, non-Semitic notion. Was this Paul's notion?"
> *****************************************************************
>
> Spiritual, to Paul, evidently did not rule out corporeal per se.
> They weren't mutually exclusive qualifiers. You will have to cite
> specific pericopes in the NT which refer to a 'non-corporeal' God. I
> don't think this notion is there, or at least I can't think of any
> places where it is suggested. God IS qualified in many places as
> Spirit rather than flesh, of course, but that's not the same thing.
GJohn 1:1 suggests an incorporeal god. I thought there were other
references, but I couldn't find them.

>
> You've raised many interesting points in your last few posts that I
> want to get to in some detail when I have time. Sorry for this
> outline and threadbare response.
No problem, take your time. (I'll be reading Hebrews.)

Liz

>
> Mike
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Michael D. A. Myers
> University of California, Irvine
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> <mmyers AT helium.biomol.uci.edu>
> 06/02/1999
> 17:10:33

Lisbeth S. Fried
Department of Hebrew and Judaic Studies
New York University
51 Washington Sq. S.
New York, NY 10012
lqf9256 AT is3.nyu.edu
lizfried AT umich.edu




  • RE: Gal 2:16 ( MM), Liz Fried, 06/02/1999

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