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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: nxzaha AT wm.edu
  • Cc: Hebrew List <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] watered ground & forming dust
  • Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:35:11 -0500

Naama,

It appears to me that אדמה is solid, אטמה, עצמה, while עפר like אפר is powder.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Nov 10, 2009, at 4:51 PM, Naama Zahavi-Ely wrote:

Yes -- except that the word "ground" is usually used for an expanse of material, not for the material it is made of. You don't usually pick up a pinch of ground; you can definitely do that with עפר. A closer equivalent to the English word "ground" is אדמה. But languages do not match in word boundaries as a rule. That's why translating is such a fascinating task.

Best

Naama

---- Original message ----
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:05:15 -0500
From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] watered ground & forming dust
To: nxzaha AT wm.edu
Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Naama,

Ground sounds good. Compare the root עפר with the roots אפר,
אבר, עבר, עור, פרר, ברר.

Isaac Fried
Boston University

On Nov 10, 2009, at 2:44 PM, Naama Zahavi-Ely wrote:

Shalom!

The problem is that you are dealing through English with something
for which there is no good English term. I run into this problem
every year as I read the text of Genesis 1-3 with intermediate
Hebrew students. "Afar," which is translated as "dust," is
actually not (dry, wind-blown) dust but rather earth/soil as
material -- that is, the collective term for particles of earth
that one can pick up and pinch between one's fingers. It can be
dry or moist, and it can be formed. I have not been able to find a
better English word -- every possibility I can think of has other
connotations that are misleading (ground? earth? soil?).

I also agree with Yigal's reasoning -- you can't apply Aristotelian
logic to the Hebrew Bible (or for that matter to most usage of any
language). But in this case, the argument is not necessary.

Best wishes

Naama Zahavi-Ely
College of William and Mary

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:59:46 -0700
From: Gerry Folbre <gfolbreiii AT gmail.com>
Subject: [b-hebrew] watered ground & forming dust
To: B-Hebrew <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
<a79631010911091659rf59c74ewaf2c29d1d0c10644 AT mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I would like to discuss what I perceive as incongruent anomalies
composed
within Gen. 2:6b & 2:7a.

Gen. 2:6b ????? ???????????????? ... {and irrigated [watered/made
wet] the
whole face of the ground).

Gen. 2:7a ... ????? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ???????? {and it
formed the
human archetype of dust from the ground ...)



Gen. 2:6b states that the entire face (surface) of the ground is
irrigated.
But then Gen. 2:7a not only describes ?dry, loose earth (or dust)?
being
found upon the newly irrigated surface of the ground, Gen. 2:7a also
apparently stats that somehow this ?dry, loose earth (dust)? can
somehow be
?formed?. However, ?dust (dry, loose earth) from the ground? is
not an
earthly substance that lends itself to being ?formed {like a
potter forms a
vessel)?.



If there is anyone who may have some constructive insight into these
contextual anomalies, I look forward to discussing these subjects
with you.



Gerry Folbre


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