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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Isaac Fried's Theory (was Karl's lexicon)

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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: JCR128 AT student.anglia.ac.uk
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Isaac Fried's Theory (was Karl's lexicon)
  • Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:13:58 -0400

James,

I am hastening to say that Steven Pinker is not a scientologist. I said that his theories appear to me to be scientological in nature. The whole thing is irrelevant and I regret bringing up his good name here.
Language (vocabulary+grammar) is transmitted to us through the generations.
All I am interested in is the structure of Hebrew words such as $AMARNU. Do you agree with what I have said about its composition?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Aug 30, 2007, at 2:09 AM, JAMES CHRISTIAN READ wrote:


IF: It appears to me that you are mixing up two distinct linguistic
issues: (1) word formation (which is inherent), and (2) the use of
language (which is invented). I am not interested in the latter, only
in the former. Children don't invent roots.

JCR: So that then begs the question "inherited from
what"? Are you suggesting that the language was
created this way (worth considering)? Or that it
evolved (needs to address the cognitive problems I
have raised)?

IF: I am surprised that you are prepared to accept Steven Pinker's
scientological fantasies as though they were God's word to Moses on
mount Sinai, but keep asking me for a proof to something that is
obviously true.

JCR: Didn't realise he was a scientologist. I usually
just listen to the arguments people make and the data
behind them to consider whether they have good
scientific basis. In any case your objections to
Pinker are irrelevant in this case because the
observations on cognitive development I am referring to
are not his but are firmly rooted in the independent
research of people like Piaget.

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James Christian Read - BSc Computer Science
http://www.lamie.org/hebrew - thesis1: concept driven machine translation using the Aleppo codex
http://www.lamie.org/lad-sim.doc - thesis2: language acquisition simulation

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Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Aug 29, 2007, at 4:43 PM, JAMES CHRISTIAN READ wrote:


IF: James,

I am terribly sorry but what you are saying makes no sense to me. I
know that the fault could rest all with me. I may be improperly
hardwired, ignorant, or possibly not steeped deep enough in
"psycholinguistics". I don't know. A statement such as "the only
natural conclusion I can draw is that for your model to work it would
require the ancient Hebrews to have had a cognitive system not only
different from modern day humans but from primates and all other
living animals that have eyes and ears" is truly beyond me. Sorry, we
appear to inhabit different intellectual worlds.

JCR: Ok! I am beginning to realise that maybe I haven't
explained my objection to your model well enough. Let
me try again but if I fail this time please let me
know which parts I haven't explained well enough.

Language is combinatorial. That is to say we combine
words to make clauses. We combine clauses to make
sentences etc. etc.This is the appealing part of your
theory because it introduces a new level of combination
- elemental consonants to form meaningful roots.

There is no psycholinguistic problem to the observation
that we combine words to make sentences because we
have a cognitive system which is able to associate
words with objects, their properties and their actions.

There *is* a psycholinguistic problem with your model
because there is no plausible cognitive model which
would enable the brain of a human child to associate
the elements you suggest with consonants and therefore
be able to use them as a combinatorial basis.

Please be specific about the parts you don't understand
or take issue with in further replies.

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-------------------------------------------------------

James Christian Read - BSc Computer Science
http://www.lamie.org/hebrew - thesis1: concept driven
machine translation using the Aleppo codex
http://www.lamie.org/lad-sim.doc - thesis2: language acquisition
simulation

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