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b-hebrew - RE: [b-hebrew] Please shed any light on meaning of "temple" in thesepassages

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  • From: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried AT umich.edu>
  • To: "b-hebrew list" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Please shed any light on meaning of "temple" in thesepassages
  • Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2004 20:15:23 -0500

Unless Finkelstein has recanted this recently,
his book on the Israelite settlement period cites
archaeological evidence for a large structure at Shiloh
which he claims could only have been built by the men
of several villages working together. He dates it to the 11th
century and states that it was destroyed by the Philistines.
This book came out in the 80's and he may have changed his
mind since.

As for the viability of mud-brick buildings in the archaeogical
record, that is primarily what there is, and they are continually found
in excavations throughout Israel. Often there are also stone foundations.

I would suggest that bayit and hekal denote structures that were
intended to be permanent and to house the deity (=the ark). The
ark would not have been kept out-of-doors.

Liz Fried

> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Peter Kirk
> Sent: Sun, February 01, 2004 7:55 PM
> To: Dora Smith
> Cc: b-hebrew list
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Please shed any light on meaning of "temple" in
> thesepassages
>
>
> On 02/02/2004 04:09, Dora Smith wrote:
>
> >Someone posted this book excerpt to another list I'm on.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>THE ISRAELITES IN HISTORY AND TRADITION
> >>>by Niels Peter Lemche (c) 1998
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Page 95
> >>
> >>...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I don't know what to think of Lemche or the thoroughness of his research.
> >It is news to me that anyone has been searching for a temple at
> Shiloh; I
> >always understood the shrine at Shiloh to be only a shrine.
> >
> >
> >
> This seems to be typical of certain kinds of scholarship. One scholar
> erects a theory that there was a permanent and impressive temple at
> Shiloh although the records don't say there was. Another demolishes this
> theory and then presumes that he has discredited the account which
> didn't support the theory in the first place. Anyway it is extremely
> hazardous to conclude anything from negative evidence in archaeology,
> failure to find something. There are so many reasons why evidence can
> have disappeared, or not be in the expected place.
>
> Prof Lemche was on this list a few years ago. Maybe he is still lurking.
> I would of course be interested to hear his response to my criticism.
>
> >The actual passages as translated in the New Revised Standard Version DO
> >refer to a temple there, but one of the passages also calls it a tent of
> >meeting, and my Access Bible interprets this to mean the "temple" was a
> >mobile tent shrine.
> >
> >What Hebrew word is used, how can it be interpreted, and what light can
> >anyone shed on whether the structure was a tent or a temple?
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Jeremiah 4:12; Go now to my place that was in Shiloh, where I
> made my name
> >dwell at first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people
> >Israel. Notes explain that Shiloh was a shrine in the northern
> kingdom that
> >was destroyed by the Philistines.
> >
> >
> >
> 7:12 actually, describes Shiloh as a MAQOM "place", nothing more speific.
>
> >...
> >Note on this says "Elkanah's annual pilgrimage to the temple of Yahweh or
> >house of the Lord (v. 7) in Shiloh..."
> >
> >
> >
> 1 Sam 1:7 BEYT-YHWH "house of the Lord" (cf. 2 Sam 12:20 before the
> building of the temple), but BAYIT does not always mean a permanent
> house, it can refer to a tent e.g. Gen 27:15. Anyway, even if this was a
> regular BAYIT it would have been built of mud brick and so its remains
> would be undetectable, or indistinguishable from those of dwelling
> houses, after 3000 years.
>
> >Now Eli was very old. He heard all that his sons were doing to
> all Israel,
> >an dhow they lay with the women who served at the entrance to the tent of
> >meeting. ...
> >
> This is 1 Sam 2:22, and the shrine is described as 'OHEL MO`ED "tent of
> meeting", the same term regularly used for the tabernacle which was
> transported through the desert in Moses' time. This clearly implies that
> the author identifies the Shiloh shrine with that tent. Of course the
> tent might have been partly replaced by a more permanent structure, but
> the text doesn't say that it had been.
>
> >...
> >3:3: And Samuel was lying down n the temple of the Lord, where
> the ark of
> >God was. Note on this says, "Samuel's bed was in the temple
> near the inner
> >sanctuary where the ark of God was kept. "
> >
> >
>
> Here, also 1:9, HEYKAL "temple" is used, but this word alone doesn't
> tell us what kind of building it was.
>
>
> --
> Peter Kirk
> peter AT qaya.org (personal)
> peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
> http://www.qaya.org/
>
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