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  • From: furuli AT online.no
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Contextual Semantic Domains
  • Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:06:33 +0100


Dear Peter,

Your remarks below are very fine, and I agree with them. Lexicographers must do their best, as does Reinier de Blois. However, the question is what the lexicographers lead their readers to believe that they get by reading a lexicon. Do they find the *lexical meaning* of a word in such a lexicon, or do they find something else?

The explanations of Reinier de Blois are fine indeed, but he does not give the *lexical meaning* of each word, he gives only explanations and glosses. And it is a pity if his readers believe that they get the *lexical meaning*. Your words below reminds me of Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 13:12, which in English translation can be: "For at present we see in a hazy outline by means of a metal mirror". If this is applied to Hebrew-English lexicons, that is very fine. If not, the readers simply are hoodwinked.





...

Can the "lexical meaning" in each case be expressed with one word, ...

Certainly not! One word might be a synonym but would not be a definition. Well, in exceptional cases a one word definition might be adequate e.g. defining KELEB as "dog", but certainly not as a rule and only if (as is not true with this example) there are no non-literal senses.

... or must the "lexical meaning" be expressed with several different words in each case? Or can it be that the "lexical meaning" cannot be expressed by words at all, because it is tied to a concept in the minds of living people?

Good question! Surely not completely and adequately. But if there are to be any helps for readers and translators, lexicographers are bound to do the best they can to express these meanings.

In order to use lexicons in the right way I think its readers should be taught the following: The letters and sounds of a word has no meaning (save onomatopoetica). But each word signals one (or occasionally two or more) concepts in the minds of people speaking the same language. The concept signalled by the word is its *lexical meaning*, but in most cases a concept cannot be adequately defined, it must be known. True, we can in many cases point to a "core sense" of the concept. But this is not its *lexical meaning*, but only a part of this meaning. Let me illustrate my case by using the word "meaning"

In The Concise Oxford Thesaurus (1997). Oxford: Oxford University Press I find the following under "meaning":

Meaning noun 1 understand the meaning of what he said, signification, sense, message, import, drift,, gist, essence, substance, purport, connotation, denotation, implication, significance, trust. 2 what is the meaning of the word? Definition, explanation, interpretation, elucidation, explication. 3 it was notour meaning to delay him intention, purpose, plan, aim, goal, end, object, objective, aspiration, desire, want. Wish. 4 his life has no meaning significance, point, value, worth, consequence, account. 5 a glance full of meaning significance, implication, allusion, intimation, insinuation, eloquence, expression.

Where do we find the *lexical meaning* among these words? We don't find it at all. But when we hear or read the word "meaning" we get a relatively clear or a vague notion in our mind of what is spoken about. But how can we use this *lexical meaning* which is more or less vague? Communication between individuals by help of words basically consists in making a part of the meaning potential visible and to make all other parts invisible. The tool we have to achieve this is the context. The context does not generate new *lexical meaning* - all the *lexical meaning* is found in the concept in the mind - but the context helps the listener/reader to see which part of each concept the author wants to make visible. The context can generate other kinds of meaning, but not a single piece of *lexical meaning*. Thus it is definitely wrong to claim that lexical meaning can be found in lexicons, and it is equally wrong to claim that the context has anything to do with lexical meaning at all, except of making visible the right part of the lexical meaning that already is present.

BTW. A conclusion of my aspect studies is that the basic purpose of Hebrew aspects is to make a part of the verbal meaning visible and to make other parts invisible.




--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/

Best regards

Rolf Furuli
University of Oslo
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On 21/11/2003 09:06, furuli AT online.no wrote:


Dear Peter,

Your remarks below are very fine, and I agree with them. Lexicographers must do their best, as does Reinier de Blois. However, the question is what the lexicographers lead their readers to believe that they get by reading a lexicon. Do they find the *lexical meaning* of a word in such a lexicon, or do they find something else?

The explanations of Reinier de Blois are fine indeed, but he does not give the *lexical meaning* of each word, he gives only explanations and glosses. And it is a pity if his readers believe that they get the *lexical meaning*. Your words below reminds me of Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 13:12, which in English translation can be: "For at present we see in a hazy outline by means of a metal mirror". If this is applied to Hebrew-English lexicons, that is very fine. If not, the readers simply are hoodwinked.

I am reminded more of 2 Corinthians 12:3, "inexpressible things". I would agree that the lexical meaning is not entirely expressible in words. Lexicographers realise this and often give disclaimers to this effect. But we do our best.


...
In order to use lexicons in the right way I think its readers should be taught the following: The letters and sounds of a word has no meaning (save onomatopoetica). But each word signals one (or occasionally two or more) concepts in the minds of people speaking the same language. The concept signalled by the word is its *lexical meaning*, but in most cases a concept cannot be adequately defined, it must be known. True, we can in many cases point to a "core sense" of the concept. But this is not its *lexical meaning*, but only a part of this meaning. Let me illustrate my case by using the word "meaning"

In The Concise Oxford Thesaurus (1997). Oxford: Oxford University Press I find the following under "meaning":

Meaning noun 1 understand the meaning of what he said, signification, sense, message, import, drift,, gist, essence, substance, purport, connotation, denotation, implication, significance, trust. 2 what is the meaning of the word? Definition, explanation, interpretation, elucidation, explication. 3 it was notour meaning to delay him intention, purpose, plan, aim, goal, end, object, objective, aspiration, desire, want. Wish. 4 his life has no meaning significance, point, value, worth, consequence, account. 5 a glance full of meaning significance, implication, allusion, intimation, insinuation, eloquence, expression.

Where do we find the *lexical meaning* among these words? We don't find it at all. ...

But you are quoting here from a thesaurus, a list of near synonyms. If you want to find the lexical meaning, look at a good dictionary. You won't find it perfectly, but you will get much nearer.

... But when we hear or read the word "meaning" we get a relatively clear or a vague notion in our mind of what is spoken about. But how can we use this *lexical meaning* which is more or less vague? Communication between individuals by help of words basically consists in making a part of the meaning potential visible and to make all other parts invisible. The tool we have to achieve this is the context. The context does not generate new *lexical meaning* - all the *lexical meaning* is found in the concept in the mind - but the context helps the listener/reader to see which part of each concept the author wants to make visible. The context can generate other kinds of meaning, but not a single piece of *lexical meaning*. Thus it is definitely wrong to claim that lexical meaning can be found in lexicons, ...

What you say here seems reasonable at first sight. But if you want to demonstrate it more fully, at least start by quoting from a lexicon and not a thesaurus.

... and it is equally wrong to claim that the context has anything to do with lexical meaning at all, except of making visible the right part of the lexical meaning that already is present.

BTW. A conclusion of my aspect studies is that the basic purpose of Hebrew aspects is to make a part of the verbal meaning visible and to make other parts invisible.


--
Peter Kirk
peter AT qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk AT qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/






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