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b-hebrew - RE: vayyiqtol, -rolf

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  • From: yochanan bitan-buth <ButhFam AT compuserve.com>
  • To: Rolf Furuli <furuli AT online.no>
  • Cc: b-hebrew <b-hebrew AT franklin.oit.unc.edu>
  • Subject: RE: vayyiqtol, -rolf
  • Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 02:56:25 -0400


Rolf katav: >However, I have
>found that Hebrew verbs can be classified in two groups (YIQTOL,WAYYIQTOL,
>and WEYIQTOL in one, and QATAL and WEQATAL in the other), each groups
>having definite characteristics of each of the aspects. The YIQTOL group
>has imperfective characteristics and the QATAL group has perfective
>characteristics.

You notice that that doesn't say anything:

Group one conveys "L-ness"
Group 2 conveys "M-ness"

Try using your verbs for ordinary situations.
Do they generate patterns like in the Bible?
If not, why not?
Or, what would happen if you rewrote and flipped a text around?
**...
ve-'amar elohim 'yehi or' (against implicature='used to say')
ve-haya or (against implicature='used to be')
ve-yir'e et ha-or ki tov (implicature='used to see', not vay-yar)
ve-hivdil elohim ben ha-or uven ha-Hoshex (implicature='used to separate')
vay-yiqra elohim et ha-or yom (implicature='called')
ve-laHoshex yiqra layla. (implicature='used to call'!! Biblical writers
don't do this. why?)
ve-haya `erev ve-haya boqer yom eHad. (against implicature='used to be/was
an open situation'. so how many first days were there?)

Press the system. I don't believe that a writer was allowed "100%
subjective options" like above because the 95% implicatures are all being
stomped on.
[Look at the 'call' comparison. Your system would compare them in different
'aspects'. What's worse is that comparing nouns would almost ALWAYS be
compared in different aspects. Didn't the Hebrew speakers ever compare
things within the same aspect? (Look at the house that Jack built. Look at
the house that Tom is/was/wiil be in process of building.) What was the
problem if these were 100% subjective?] (Yet while 'always' changing
aspects, almost never with participles in narrative accounts.)
My claim is that a 'learner/language use' carries the strong implicatures
with them, which in fact gives a fuzzy meaning to the structure and
prevents the mess written above. Like meaning within the lexicon, with its
systemic networking, so are larger categories. Networked mappings and
implicatures are what people get and what people use. Such is real
language.

ha-tuxal lixtov li sefer bisfat kena`an? `al `izzim o `al ohalim, nashim o
milHamot.
(Can you write me a letter? ... or tell me what happened yesterday or last
week.)

bivraxot
Randall Buth



  • RE: vayyiqtol, -rolf, yochanan bitan-buth, 06/28/2000

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