[permaculture] The Trouble with Permaculture

Darrell E. Frey defrey at bioshelter.com
Sat Jan 25 20:30:55 EST 2014


Thanks Michael. Hawthorn has eatable leaves!. Who knew

Darrell E. Frey
Three Sisters Farm
defrey at bioshelter.com
www.bioshelter.com

Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society 
Publishing, 2011

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 15:43:19 -0800 (PST), Michael Pilarski 
<friendsofthetrees at yahoo.com> wrote:
Darrell,  thank you for the comments. I concur with you completely. 
>
> I too read the article being talked about and didn't think it was a 
> bad article at all.  She lambasted permaculturists who don't know 
> how to garden, and rightly so.  She poked at some holes in the PC 
> ideology/dogmatism, and rightly so.  We should all be alert for 
> dogmatism and applying permaculture techniques blindly (such as every 
> pc design should include sheet mulch, a hugelkultur and a food 
> forest). I went and viewed the youtube she was criticizing of Mike 
> Feingold's pc garden in the UK.  Mike's pc site looked good to me 
> and his gardening . His dialogue was good.  I am not sure what she 
> was complaining about. Maybe it was because Mike looked untidy. 
> Perhaps it wasn't as productive as a wall to wall garden at peak 
> productivity.  But for the amount of time he put into it, I suspect 
> the cost/yield ratio was good.  I am perhaps biased since Mike 
> Feingold is a friend of mine and we taught a pdc in Nepal together.  
> here is Mike Feingold's youtube if anyone wants to watch it, 9 
> minutes 37 seconds. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3R1BZVnD4M
>
>
> Michael Pilarski
>
>  
> Michael "Skeeter" Pilarski
> Permaculture - Wildcrafting - Medicinal Herbs & Seeds
>
>
> Sign up for my newsletter at www.friendsofthetrees.net
> www.facebook.com/michael.skeeter.pilarski
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:55 AM, Darrell E. Frey 
> <defrey at bioshelter.com> wrote:
>  I have to confess I have had similar experiences as the article 
> describes, many times over the last 30 years. Many people have 
> visited my market garden farm, who, with a limited view of 
> Permaculture Design, offered numerous critiques  and questioned 
> where the "permaculture " was?
>   I have been teaching permaculture design since 1987, with many 
> different associates, in various venues. We always teach permaculture 
> as a design system applied land, buildings,  businesses, farms, 
> schools lifestyles and regions and so on. Permaculture encompasses 
> all aspects of our human relationship to our planet and draws on many 
> disciplines and resources to achieve our goals consistant with our 
> ethics. As I heard Bill Mollison say in person in 1981, it is not how 
> you garden, it is just where you put the garden that makes a 
> permaculture design . As a permaculture design professional I help 
> clients, starting from where they are, to achieve their goals to live 
> a more ecologically sustainable lifestyle. Sometimes that includes a 
> forest garden, sometimes a biointensive garden, and generally a mix. 
> Some may mulch, sme may till. Generally they will do both in 
> different gardens.  Sometimes it is just about what they eat and 
> where they buy it, and what the do with "waste" But it also includes 
> time management, succession planning, resource conservation, and a 
> goal to achieve the yields the client seeks. So, back to the article 
> in question, I say bravo! Let us read such self critique with an open 
> mind and seek to broaden the view of our associates. The experience 
> the author describes predate the a forementioned Vlad by decades, and 
> comes from people short on experience .   A deep reading of Bill 
> Mollison does not really promise no work gardening. Do not confuse 
> his promotion techniques with real advice. Yes, such presentation by 
> Mollison may have led to short sighted comprehension by novices  of 
> permaculture, but I do not think he, or anyone else I have taught 
> permaculture with promised a yield with no work. And we did not think 
> mollison really suggested that entirely. I met Bill Mollison in 1981 
> and again in 1990 when he spent a day at my fledgling farm. He wrote 
> in my copy of the Designer's Manual. "Great Work!" as he signed it 
> for me. Work indeed!
>
> Darrell E. Frey
> Three Sisters Farm
> defrey at bioshelter.com
> www.bioshelter.com
>
> Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society 
> Publishing, 2011
>
> On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 06:18:54 -0500, Holger Hieronimi 
> <holger at tierramor.org> wrote:
> Why Bad? I think this article is a good one, althought it is very
> > critical with some expressions of PC-
> > the author is not uninformed, since she aparently read though some 
> of > the basic literature plus seems to have considerable experience 
> in > organic food production... >
> > Its more than clear now that some of the "Mollsionisms" ("The > 
> designer becomes a recliner"/ "The problem is the solution"/ etc.) > 
> were great vehicles to draw atention back in the 80ies, but also > 
> helped to build "cult permaculture" & a cadre of enthusiastic PC > 
> illuminates described in the article. No problem...I have been one > 
> after my first PDC back in 1996....and I´m happy for that, since > 
> this motivated me (in my case) to actually try to establish some > 
> systems and realize that not everything works as well in realiity as 
> > described th the PC Designers Manual, a greant book but definitly 
> not > the "bible" and/or ultimate expression of PC. >
> > Every course of some PC celebrities (Geoff Lawton is one prominent 
> > example) adds some more to this number (and I think nobody in thios 
> > group wants to qualify him as some body who gives "bad courses"), 
> and > its only through a few years of practice "on the ground", > 
> establishing designs, getting dirtty, maintainig developing systems, 
> > producing food, experiencing how systems actually work and evolve > 
> over time in different climates & contexts, that the imaginative > 
> power of PC concepts get grounded. >
> > saludos desde Colombia (en este momento)
> >
> > Holger
> >
> >
> > El 24/01/14 04:14, permaculture-request at lists.ibiblio.org escribió:
> > > The Trouble with Permaculture
> > > 
> http://www.resilience.org/stories/2014-01-23/the-trouble-with-permaculture
> > >
> > > a very bad article; Vlad fodder, awful - just to see what the uninformed
> > > are up to
> >
> > -- Holger Hieronimi - holger at tierramor.org
> > TIERRAMOR - Diseño Integrado
> > www.tierramor.org
> > Diseño de sistemas ecológicos
> > Consultas y asesorías
> > Facilitación de conferencias, seminarios, cursos y talleres
> >
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> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech 
> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with 
> integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and 
> enhanced nature-compatible human habitat



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