[permaculture] Rock Dust

loren luyendyk loren at sborganics.com
Sat Mar 9 02:58:30 EST 2013


I have to agree with Koreen, Scott, and Jason- there should be no need to strip mine or any other sort of rampant cutting of the earth to supply nutrients to our food crops, moreover pay for them.  If your plants are struggling in your native soils then maybe look at growing plants that are more adapted to the parent material- right plant right place.  You can only change a soil so much...

I have used rock dust in the past, Azomite in limited amounts.  I never did any comparisons but I guess I never found it that beneficial, or more to the point worth the price ($ and environmental).  I could always grow pretty good food without it.  maybe not 15+ on the brix scale, but good enough to feed me and keep me healthy.

I feel the same about most agricultural nutrients- better to make your own.  Eugenio Gras, again, has created a DIY method of making biofertilizers, including soluble phosphate from bones and wood ash.  To quote another post I made to this exact listserve recently, on this exact topic:
"To create soluble phosphorus, Eugenio takes animal bones which are 
high in calcium and phosphorus, and burns them. The ash is phosphorus 
and mineral rich. “The industry charges you $50 a kilo for soluble 
phosphate and how much does a bone cost you? Every farmer has a cemetery
 and they are for free!” he says.
Other wood ashes and rock dust can be added, to increase the 
diversity of minerals. The mixture undergoes lactic fermentation, which 
chelates the minerals. “Four thousand minerals have been classified. 
That’s the number that plants have had available for 400 million years. 
Then we come along and say ‘no, the only thing you need is NPK’. We now 
know it is not the amount of the mineral, but its presence that is 
important. We found when you bring rock dust into the biofertiliser, the
 diversity is much greater and you don’t need to buy in those expensive 
sulphates anymore. We also use small quantities. If you have grapes with
 a zinc deficiency, then you can add one kilogram of zinc to your 
starting ingredients. It will chelate and you will end up with 
biofertiliser enriched with zinc and an array of other minerals,” 
Eugenio says."
full article:http://www.acresaustralia.com.au/international/02/biofertilisers-and-plant-health-defence-is-the-best-form-of-attack/As it says, Eugenio will use mined minerals in his brews (rock dust), but only in 
limited amounts, and when applied as foliar or in fertigation, they go a
 long way.  Not like ordering dump truck loads of rock dust and pouring 
it on your field

I couldn't find many good pics of fosfito, phosphate recipe but here is one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cicada/5060878353/in/set-72157625117735696.  He makes a rocket stove fire with the bones in the middle of the pile and covers it with sawdust and places a chimney on top.  Not sure the rest- need to learn this!

I manage several farms at the moment and have inherited trees in poor health.  I will use  a limited amount of mined nutrients/amendments this season (mostly humic acid) as I am not set up yet to make biofertilizers.  Next year I vow to free my farming from the cost of nutrients.  This cost is significant for fruit farmers, especially for citrus and avocados.  If I can make my own fertilizer from "free" materials then I am all for it.

Loren Luyendyk
805-452-8249
Permaculture Design and Education
ISA Certified Arborist #WE-7805A
www.sborganics.com
www.globalpermaculture.com
www.surferswithoutborders.com


> From: fdnokes at hotmail.com
> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 20:39:00 -0800
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Rock Dust
> 
> I like the way your message refers to spirit
> without which, nothing is worth doing.
> I also like all of the information that I have gotten from your posts.
> have never used phosphate... something held me back... seen people use it, 
> talk about, etc.
> something held me back...
> somehow, I should be able to find the resources in a more immediate way, it 
> seemed.
> Thanks for expressing yourself freely and sharing.
> Frances
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Koreen Brennan
> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2013 6:39 AM
> To: permaculture
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Rock Dust
> 
> as a note, the phosphate mines in Florida are doing horrible damage to 
> environments. Not even remotely sustainable to use mined phosphate - as bad 
> as coal mining, etc. It's a good thing to check into mining practices of 
> whatever rock minerals you get. Using the waste stream is the best. I 
> haven't had rock dust from various waste streams tested around here but 
> something on my list. As you say Lawrence, there is plenty of science out 
> there about the positive effects of rock minerals on plants.
> 
> There is the soil science and then there are other factors.  I always test 
> products and product combinations in my own garden for many reasons. The 
> main way I've done it is with seedlings but I'm doing more with trees and 
> other things now. One major wild card factor is the spiritual relationship 
> between a person and their plants. And that sometimes supercedes all the 
> nutrients in the world. I've had people go into my "volunteer" garden area 
> and kill or stunt things just by being around them, and others go in and the 
> plant just leaps upward and outward.  That is a fascinating study.
> 
> Koreen Brennan
> 
> www.growpermaculture.com
> www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
> www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: venaurafarm <venaurafarm at bellsouth.net>
> To: permaculture <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 8, 2013 9:13 AM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Rock Dust
> 
> On 3/8/2013 12:38 AM, tanya wrote:
> 
> > Engineers will prefer the Solomon approach, very linear and
> > numbers-based, with detailed arguments for making each choice.
> 
> Like hell they will. Soloman is no scientist; he is a snake oil
> salesman, irresponsible and unconscientious. BS to sell his product.
> I put him in the same category as vlad, equally bad.
> 
> As for the effectiveness of quarry rock dusts and rock dust soil
> amendments from a reputable dealer like Fertrell, rock phosphate,
> greensand, azomite and other products, these materials feed the soil,
> they feed the microorganisms that live in the soil that provide plant
> nutrients and build overall soil quality for the long term. Rock powders
> contribute to the production of "nutrient dense" food that contribute to
> maximum human health. They also dramatically increase the flavor of
> crops, apearance, size, nutritional quaity and keeping qualities. Use
> quarry rock dusts freely after reading the MSDS on them to determine
> their chemical makeup. Quarries are strictly EPA regulated and siltation
> pond fines are clean.
> 
> > and Solomon has a whole chapter about not relying on
> > compost.
> 
> Again, he has not the slightest clue what he is talking about. Pure
> snake oil BS. Use as much compost as you are able to apply to your
> garden or farm soil. Ignore what that senile greedy fool rants about and
> get on with your work. He is a distraction and a bad influence on
> gardeners and farmers who adhere to natural methods and materials.
> 
> In Mexico his book would be recycled in the bathroom.
> 
> > If anyone else has read either or both of these books, I'd be
> > interested in hearing what you think. I've been thinking of getting my
> > soil tested (at a community garden plot) and playing around with more
> > than just the alfalfa pellets, nettle and comfrey teas, and compost
> > I've been using.
> 
> Forget Logan Labs and get your soil and plant tissue tests done by a
> competent, reliable testing lab: Texas Plant and Soil Lab (TPSL).
> 
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
 		 	   		  


More information about the permaculture mailing list