[permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture - important issues

christopher nesbitt christopher.nesbitt at mmrfbz.org
Thu May 3 21:22:31 EDT 2012


Toby,

Thank you for answering this, and doing it so well.

Viva Le Trolles!

C
On May 3, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Toby Hemenway wrote:

> 
> On May 3, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Oystein Tandberg wrote:
> 
>> :-) Thank you, Toby, for your kind reply - you produce NO arguments though
> 
> There are a few in there, if you know what an argument is. These sites, however, produce no relevant arguments.
> 
>> 1. Destructive man made climate change - http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/
> 
> This website is a superb example of the same old pseudoscientific soundbite ambiguities, distortions, and a few outright lies, that have been shown to be false over and over again. Zombie arguments: why won't they die? Their point amounts to "climate is always changing." It is designed to influence the ignorant. It's not worth my time to make the same corrections that have been made by good scientists hundreds of times, but there are about 400 websites out there that cite research data (instead of stories, like that website) that specifically refute this garbage. With all that out there, you have to be working hard not to have these falsehoods corrected.
>> 
>> 2. Overpopulation - http://overpopulationisamyth.com/
> 
> What a smokescreen. For example, they say we have enough food. Yes, we do, for now, but that is a typical distraction that hides the real issue. Their argument, "we are producing more food now on less land" is just stupid--it's because of oil, which is non-renewable, and it's really sick food that causes obesity, diabetes and heart disease, grown at a terrible ecological cost. No problem there! The site is full of poor or "inside a small box" thinking like that.  Their main argument, another distraction, is that overpopulation is not the cause of poverty, disease, and war. Well, duh. But to then conclude that a large population doesn't cause problems is really bad reasoning. The true problem with a large human population is its ecological consequences and overexploitation of resources which then cause collapse of both the human and non-human realm (it's happened many times), which they completely ignore. 
> 
> And, I had to laugh when they wriggled out of it all by stating that population will soon begin to drop, anyway, which tells me that in their hearts they know that it is indeed a problem, but we don't need to worry about it because it will be naturally checked (uh, by running out of food?). Really poor thinking.
> 
> I've already agreed that a healthy organism is much less likely to succumb to infection. The arguers try to make a sensational story out of nothing, relying for it on the layperson's confusion around the many meanings of "cause," which has vexed philosophers for 2500 years (same with the population website: what "causes" poverty?). They aren't saying anything that a virologist would disagree with, but the bottom line is that without an infectious agent, there will be no infection. Yes, people in good health rarely get sick (circular reasoning?). Healthy tissue resists infection. Poor health causes infection. Viruses cause infection. All are true, they just use the concept of "cause" differently. This is immediately apparent if you ever studied logic or philosophy. Apparently, few have. 
> 
> I'll stop there, because the lame excuses for thinking on these sites are really just awful and a waste of my time, although it's always fun to wade into the garbage pits on the internet. But that people fall for it makes me sad. 
> 
> Toby
>> 
>> 3. Viruses - http://www.virusmyth.org/  
>> 
>> 4. Pasteur - http://www.whale.to/a/lost_history_of_medicine.html 
>> 
>> best regards
>> Øystein 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives:  http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com



_____________________________
Christopher Nesbitt

Maya Mountain Research Farm
San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
BELIZE, 
Central America

www.mmrfbz.org





More information about the permaculture mailing list