[permaculture] official certification - the DAPD

Killian O'Brien admin at pri-de.org
Sat Oct 23 10:21:09 EDT 2010


And, who will be able to afford this? If we simply repeat what has always been, we are not moving forward. By making permaculture about money and formal certificates, you are preventing/slowing its spread. Eschew the pay-me-thousands-to-teach-you-what-you-can-self-teach approach and come up with a simple way to test knowledge that could be accessible to all. Portfolio, skills test-based assessment, perhaps. Observation if possible, but that gets us back to affordability, which makes it the playground of the (relatively) elite. And I guess the assessors are chosen by acclaim or are self-appointed...?

Frankly, this whole idea we need to tighten up certification at a time when we are heading into a 100 year crisis at speeds few yet truly understand surprises me. We need to find ways to rapidly increase the skilled application of permaculture principles, not slow it down and Old Paradigm it to death. Unless this more rigorous certification process is going to be offered essentially for free, and that seems unlikely, it will do more harm than good.

If we know we are headed for a no-growth, steady-state economy, shouldn't we be acting like it? That is not to say we do not need to survive. We are dying financially here in Detroit because we have been left to our own devices with zero support from the greater permaculture community with few local exceptions. This makes my point clear, however: if we, as a community, don't have enough concern for our own to prop each other up, and, in fact, engage in cannibalistic behaviors, how are we supposed to have faith in a systemized process designed to restrict who teaches what to whom? How can we have faith it won't be just another bureaucratic, unaffordable nightmare? The DAPD site itself states 1. The permaculture institute has their own process, 2. they are NOT working with the PI on this and 3. Mollison isn't even being consulted. So which diploma is *the* diploma? Something from Tagari? From PRI? From the PI? The DAPD?

What we have here is already exactly equivalent to the situation with PDCs: everybody doing their own thing.

Some of us were educators before we were permaculturists. I think we can figure out a way to do this that keeps it from becoming an expensive, institutionalized process while dealing with the speed, depth and breadth of the transition we face more effectively.

Cheers,

Killian O'Brien
PRI-De
admin at pri-de.org
(313) 647-4015

killiankob at yahoo.com
(760) 617-4693

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:permaculture-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of chauncey williams
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 8:30 AM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] official certification - the DAPD

I think all of the miscommunication comes from there not being any clear way to advance after the initial PDC.  Those days will soon be over.  The folks at Gaia University & Earth Action Mentor along with several other established Permaculture Institutes have been developing the DAPD, ie (Diploma of Applied Permaculture Design).  The aim is to have a structured 2 year program for PDC graduates who want to go deeper into permaculture and receive a diploma in the process.  It is still in development but should be happening very soon.  Here is the link to the site
http://sites.google.com/site/permaculturediploma/
All said and done, if we're trying to make a positive difference in this world, I think it should be embraced and encouraged.  It took us many years of failed experiences to get us where we are, it will take many years of failed experiences to get us where we're going, the best we can do is try with open eyes.
Sean

--- On Fri, 10/22/10, Cory <cory8570 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Cory <cory8570 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] official certification
To: "permaculture" <permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, October 22, 2010, 8:42 PM

Thank you for your clarity. There is quite a lot of confusion around the term. I would love to see a formal certification or diploma process established in the US. Meanwhile I will continue to push the concept of honor system (which is a great way to express it) and facilitate apprenticeships and continued education which to me will never stop. The natural world is a teacher of immense depth and width. 
C




On Oct 22, 2010, at 8:08 PM, Dick Pierce <dickpiercedesigns at gmail.com> wrote:

A topic of most import to me. Thanks for bringing it up - it needs to come
up from time to time as the inadvertent use of Certification is reasonably
rampant.

I fully agree with and support Toby's opinion and answer (which comes right
out of the PDC curriculum, etc.). The PDC is a Permaculture Design
Certificate, recognized in most places/organizations as the base course
necessary to take advanced courses and to embark on what nominally/normally
is a 2-year apprentice, intern, assistant, portfolio/syllabus-building term
before applying for a PC Diploma in Australia or Certification in the UK and
?France? or via an informal honor system in the US and other lands.

Calling a person with a PDC "certified" is not correct, reduces those
efforts and people that have a formal and rigorous certification/diploma
program. I would request, as has been done in the past, that all PDC
instructors/facilitators review their files, brochures, websites, course
descriptions, etc. to check them to be sure they only refer to a PDC
Certificate as the result of taking a PDC Course. A quick google of
Permaculture "Certification" will reveal the number of references that need
changing.

Thanks for listening, please take action.

Dick Pierce

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 5:47 PM, paul wheaton <paul at richsoil.com> wrote:

The awkward part of all this is that there are PDCs that are billed as
becoming a certified permaculture designer.  Like the one I took.
Before attending the PDC I told people I was taking it to become a
certified permaculture designer.  And afterward I told people that I
was now a certified permaculture designer.

A couple of years ago I mentioned this on this list and heard this
same thing:  "no - taking a PDC does not make you a certified
permaculture designer."   So I double checked:  the ad was still up
for the class I took and it still said I would be a certified
permaculture designer.

I can see the need for more levels of certification.  I would really
like to support that.   And I think that if you stick to saying that
completing a PDC does not equate to a CPD then you will punish the
people that are in the know and reward the people that are not.

So I hope I'm not pissing anybody off by saying that I'm going to
assume that if somebody says "I'm a certified permaculture designer"
I'm going to assume that they have completed a PDC and nothing formal
beyond that.

As for the bit about two college classes vs. a degree:  Well, in the
java world we have a SCJP (Sun Certified Java Programmer) and there
are a bunch of one week courses (typically less than 40 hours)
designed to get you to pass the exam.  And this is considered one of
the toughest exams.  And then they have other, more advanced, exams
for stuff like "Sun Certified Java Architect" and the like.

To move forward, I would like to make the suggestion of embracing the
flaw that has occurred and building on it with things that are a bit
more clear.

On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Toby Hemenway
<toby at patternliteracy.com> wrote:
Beeja and everyone,

A note of clarification: Taking a PDC does not make you a "certified
permaculture designer." It's an introductory course. I urge people not to
say that, as it's a false claim. My PDC certificate from Mollison says that
I was now a "permaculture design trainee," and that's what the certificate
means. It is the first step toward becoming a designer, which, in the system
BIll set up, meant that after two years of additional, full-time work or its
equivalent in design under a mentor, you could then receive a diploma in
permaculture design, and then maybe call yourself a designer.

The PDC, at 72-100 hours or so of class, is roughly the same amount of
class time as two college courses. If you took chemistry 101 and 102, you
would never call yourself a chemist, right? (Ka-BOOM!) Same goes for the
PDC.

BTW, attachments are always scrubbed from this list--there was no
attachment. Good luck with the course, at any rate!

Toby
http://patternliteracy.com



On Oct 17, 2010, at 6:26 AM, b e e j a ... wrote:

Hello Fellow Earth Lovers,

For those of you interested to become a certified Permaculture Designer,
we
are hosting another course this November in Darjeeling on 14th -28th.
This
is the longest running PDC course happening in India for the last 7
years!

Come join the fun and help spread the awareness of sustainable lifestyle
design!

Attached is the flyer and registration form.

Hope to see you there!

Warm Regards,
Ameli
...
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-- 
DickPierceDesigns at gmail.com
SE-NE (summer) & Austin, TX (winter)
Cell-512-992-8858 (all-season)
www.DickPierceDesigns.com <http://www.dickpiercedesigns.com/>

Just Completed: 4 Courses of citizen Gardener-Basic. Next Course starts on
Jan 15 - http://citizengardener.grouply.com/.

And, just started: Fall 2010 Permaculture Decign - through Dec 11. Local
Food Grad Potluck & Celebration - Sun Dec 12 (TBA)

Next PDC starts on Jan. 24th; great Christmas present.

Dick's PC-Bio. on www.austinperm.com/
You Tube Dick Pierce for video clips
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