[permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible

Kevin Topek ktopek at att.net
Tue Apr 27 20:21:33 EDT 2010


All,

There are times when hand cultivation and labor is most advantageous.  
There are also situations when animal or machine labor is superior to  
hand work. It may be best not to generalize here. I use all 3 forms  
and find them all tiring. There is no rest for the wicked or weary.

Kevin Topek


On Apr 27, 2010, at 4:08 PM, jamesdavid Sneed wrote:

>
> Thank you, Carolyn. It was actually your words that I found  
> inspirational, and they helped me frame my thoughts about the simple  
> acceptance of Nature's Abundance by putting our hands meaningfully  
> into the soil.
> I've driven many tractors in the past, but am glad now that I have  
> chosen animal and hand power for cultivating our nurturing Earth. I  
> am sad for the others who feel they must continue with machines in  
> order to feed other people. It takes a leap of faith, and patience,  
> but we can accept Simple Gifts with Heartfelt Thanks.
>
>> Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 15:31:35 -0400
>> From: cschampagne at gmail.com
>> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible
>>
>> You have made the point very well here, and I agree.
>> It was not my intention to imply in any way that we do not have a  
>> deep and
>> urgent need to get our hands back into the earth, and to listen to  
>> our
>> Mother.
>> Nothing speaks more and clearer truth than Nature, and no  
>> 'invention' of man
>> has ever come close to 'getting' to the overall solution to a  
>> problem as
>> perfectly as She.
>>
>> We need to stop and observe and synchronize our efforts with her  
>> cycles, as
>> well as the cycles that exist on a larger scale.
>> Until we do, we'll be putting out little fires and lighting others  
>> on an
>> ongoing basis, in perpetuity.
>> A good place to start, as you point out, is to plant seeds by hand  
>> and
>> nurture them as if they were our own children.
>>
>> Carolyn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 2:17 PM, jamesdavid Sneed <harvestcircle at hotmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I agree, and unfortunately humans have a tendency for hubris, the
>>> assumption that they have deity-like powers, in this case thinking  
>>> that they
>>> have the brain power to design technology to un-screw-up the  
>>> mistakes from
>>> the last set of technologies that were going to save the world.  
>>> Maybe if
>>> folks just spent time planting seed by hand, and gently  
>>> cultivating the
>>> earth by hand, they would begin to get the message the earth  
>>> offers them
>>> along with so much Abundance.
>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 17:33:56 -0400
>>>> From: cschampagne at gmail.com
>>>> To: permaculture at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] climate change possibly irreversible
>>>>
>>>> This may not be a popular idea to put forth to this group, but it  
>>>> seems
>>>> important that we, the folks who are following in nature's path  
>>>> to create
>>>> sustainable environments, pay attention to the larger picture of  
>>>> climate
>>>> change.
>>>> We are a small planet in a very large system, and that entire  
>>>> system is
>>>> undergoing climate change now.
>>>> I will follow this with links to sites that will corroborate the  
>>>> science
>>>> behind this shortly, but I just want all to remember we're not  
>>>> working in
>>> a
>>>> vacuum here.
>>>> Yes, humans have screwed things up royally.
>>>> But, we are only contributing to the larger cycles that occur  
>>>> naturally
>>> over
>>>> very long time scales.
>>>> Currently, we are experiencing influxes of gamma rays and other
>>> off-planet
>>>> heater-uppers that are influencing the climates on every planet  
>>>> in our
>>> solar
>>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that as we move through the next 25 years, we'll  
>>>> notice
>>> more
>>>> of that going on and become more generally aware of the  
>>>> interrelationship
>>>> among celestial bodies that is as intricate and beautiful and  
>>>> perfect as
>>> the
>>>> natural relationships we find in nature on earth.
>>>>
>>>> Back shortly with links.
>>>>
>>>> Carolyn
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Rain Tenaqiya <raincascadia at yahoo.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I really appreciate all the efforts that are being made to find  
>>>>> ways to
>>>>> sequester carbon (Darren Doherty's posts are always inspiring),  
>>>>> and
>>> these
>>>>> efforts make sense on a lot of levels, but I just want to put a
>>> reminder out
>>>>> there that we need to pay attention to the latest science and  
>>>>> not get
>>> overly
>>>>> optimistic.  While they are still duking it out, this NOAA  
>>>>> report from
>>> over
>>>>> a year ago denies the possibility of reversing climate change  
>>>>> within
>>> any
>>>>> reasonable time frame:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090126_climate.html
>>>>>
>>>>> A new scientific study led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
>>>>> Administration reaches a powerful conclusion about the climate  
>>>>> change
>>> caused
>>>>> by future increases of carbon dioxide: to a large extent,  
>>>>> there’s no
>>> going
>>>>> back.
>>>>> The pioneering study, led by NOAA senior scientist Susan  
>>>>> Solomon, shows
>>> how
>>>>> changes in surface temperature, rainfall, and sea level are  
>>>>> largely
>>>>> irreversible for more than 1,000 years after carbon dioxide (CO2)
>>> emissions
>>>>> are completely stopped. The findings appear during the week of  
>>>>> January
>>> 26 in
>>>>> the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
>>>>>
>>>>> Geoengineering to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere was  
>>>>> not
>>>>> considered in the study. “Ideas about taking the carbon dioxide  
>>>>> away
>>> after
>>>>> the world puts it in have been proposed, but right now those are  
>>>>> very
>>>>> speculative,” said Solomon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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