[permaculture] Re: Aside from the whole issue of "Chemtrails"....

Michelle homekeeper at clas.net
Sun Feb 15 16:49:56 EST 2004


You are not the only one asking these questions.  I don't have answers, but
from what I can see so far  the answer is not something everyone wants to
do.  It is not a matter of doing something to overcome the problem so much,
but more of an avoidance of causing the problem in the first place.

Like I said, not many people want to hear that.



> Let's pretend for a moment that I never mentioned any particular health
> issues. The list of emittants I provided multiplied by the number of
> flights over the whole planet, especially the US, suggests the potential
> for harm to ecologies and inhabitants. Are you aware of studies which
> suggest a need for remedial action and what those actions might be? Or,
> shall we all remain blithe and secure in the certainty that no concern
> is necessary? Are all of these substances degradable by ecosystems, even
> degraded systems? Is it worth a letter to congresspeople, to editors?
> Perhaps this list is entirely the wrong venue for questions of this kind
> and I should be enquiring of various organizations dedicated to clean
> air issues. My intent was less to determine cause / effect relations for
> our own particular local conditions and more to address the questions of
> overall effects on planetary systems.
>
> Sure, we can say "just plant more trees, restore wetlands, practice
> permaculture, etc.," and the effects will be greatly lessened. But, what
> ARE the effects that might be caused by the substances emitted by jet
> aircraft? Is there an answer? Has anyone else asked the question? Who?
> What did they find out? Sure, I can do further research, but one of the
> values of addressing 400 some odd permaculturists is to refine my search
> by enquiry of those I respect and admire for their observational skills.
> I already read 50 periodicals a month and one article I encountered on
> the subject, in Earth Island Journal, suggests there may be reason to
> apply some attention to the question. What else has been learned? Where
> else shall I look?
> Thank you,
> Keith
>
> David Neeley wrote:
>
> >It isn't so simple as spore count...and there could be any
> >of a myriad of other influences besides the jet engines of
> >the planes flying over...or in addition to them.
> >
> >It could even be a particular combination of elements that
> >may not be problematical by themselves but that are when
> >taken together.
> >
> >Since you did not mention any of the symptoms of the
> >problems you are having, and there is no real idea of the
> >local ecology or of potential pollution sites upwind of
> >your location, I can not tell.
> >
> >Neither can you.
> >
> >It's simply much too simplistic to look at the "jets flying
> >overhead" and jump to a conclusion that they are the
> >problem.
> >
> >In my opinion, we must seek to find actual, verifiable
> >relationships between environmentally-related issues and
> >health if we are to be taken seriously and not simply
> >dismissed out of hand as "environmental nuts".
> >
> >For instance, a jet passing over at, say, 35,000 feet emits
> >substances which are then borne by the wind at that
> >altitude. Rarely would they affect you below. That does not
> >mean, however, that there may not be lower-level pollutants
> >from the jet engines from upwind of your location. Those
> >elements which are heavier than air would settle earthward,
> >but obviously would be affected by the winds aloft at the
> >varying altitudes as they descend.
> >
> >When you speak of a seasonal affect, variables such as
> >prevailing winds at these different seasons should be taken
> >into account.
> >
> >Generally, the techniques used by public health researchers
> >to run down such problems are very helpful to begin to
> >identify the actual causes of any problems you may be
> >experiencing. If it's pollution-related, I would think
> >you're much more likely to find some sort of pollution
> >source upwind of your location and perhaps fairly close to
> >it--the farther the pollution source, the more dispersed
> >the airborne contaminants become (obviously). Thus, you
> >might also consider how wide an area immediately around you
> >has these elevated levels of respiratory distress with
> >symptoms similar to yours.
> >
> >As for the moisture elements as a seasonal thing, I think
> >it may depend upon the actual cause of the problem and
> >whether the particular cause may be more pronounced when
> >the moisture content is higher or lower. Since there are
> >many other variables, however, this is all mere
> >speculation.
> >
> >Of course, if you *can* run it down to jet emissions, you
> >should verify that other areas with higher concentrations
> >of these emissions have the same problems. For example, one
> >would presume that areas immediately downwind of airports
> >would be more affected than you are unless there is some
> >component in the length of time the polluting elements are
> >in the atmosphere that creates the problem. For example,
> >one would suppose that the greater radiation counts aloft
> >at the cruising altitude of modern jets may react in some
> >way with these elements differently than when they are
> >emitted near to the ground. However, this seems quite a
> >stretch compared to the *much* higher concentrations near
> >airports.
> >
> >One would also assume that Navy people working on aircraft
> >carriers or anyone working in and around airports would
> >also have increased levels of respiratory problems of the
> >type you are experiencing.
> >
> >The bottom line is that it seems to me you are a very long
> >way from making a logical connection and some
> >epidemiological techniques for running it down are in
> >order. Merely pointing out that there are some nasty
> >components of jet exhaust is simply not enough.
> >
> >I'm reminded of Ambrose Bierce in his "Devil's Dictionary"
> >definition of "effect":
> >
> >EFFECT, n.
> >The second of two phenomena which always occur together in
> >the same order. The first, called a Cause, is said to
> >generate the other -- which is no more sensible than it
> >would be for one who has never seen a dog except in the
> >pursuit of a rabbit to declare the rabbit the cause of a
> >dog.
> >
> >
> >I suggest that your medical problems deserve a bit more
> >study and connection than you have indicated.
> >
> >David
> >
> >
> >
> >--- Keith Johnson <keithdj at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>David,
> >>Possibly, but would the same hold true in the drier
> >>winter months as
> >>well? We have fewer illnesses when spore counts are at
> >>their highest
> >>during the summer.
> >>Keith
> >>
> >>
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
> >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Keith Johnson
> Permaculture Activist Magazine
> PO Box 1209
> Black Mountain, NC 28711
> (828)669-6336
>
> also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
> Culture's Edge at Earthaven Ecovillage
> http://www.permacultureactivist.net
> http://www.earthaven.org
> http://www.bioregionalcongress.org
>
>
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