[NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice

Kevin Moore aleguy33 at yahoo.com
Sat Mar 21 16:02:02 EDT 2009


I'm not very scientific about how I do things. The results of my experiments are anecdotal and not controlled. Most of them are still ongoing.




________________________________
From: "dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com" <dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com>
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 1:34:04 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice

  
It would be interesting to see the results of 
your experiments. 
 
Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
Office (815) 648-4467
Mobile 
(815) 228-2174
Fax (609) 228-2174
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard.com
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com
http://www.revivalhymn.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kevin Moore 
To: North American Fruit Explorers 
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:11  PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray  advice

I believe you are right about mycorhizal fungi not protecting trees from  pathogens such as scab, etc. That is why I'm experimenting with endomorphic  fungi which grow protective barriers around the individual plant cells. I  believe this can protect trees from most common pathogens. I am not willing to  intentionally introduce those pathogens to test this however. I do know that  this group of fungi can confer heat resistance and drought resistance to  plants that have been innoculated.




________________________________
 From: Michael Dossett  <phainopepla at yahoo.com>
To: North American Fruit Explorers  <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:55:56  PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX]  Dennis's oil spray advice


mycorhizal fungi should help protect the trees from soil born  pathogens, and I suspect would have a bigger impact on small seedlings  being attached by things like Pythium.  I don't think there is any  evidence however that mycorhizal fungi do anything to protect against  foliar pathogens such as scab and cedar apple rust.  They may help  make the tree stronger so that those pathogens don't weaken it as  readily but will do nothing to stop those infections.
 
Michae
 
Michael Dossett Corvallis, Oregon www.Mdossettphoto.com phainopepla at yahoo.com

---  On Fri, 3/20/09, Kevin Moore <aleguy33 at yahoo.com> wrote:


From:  Kevin Moore <aleguy33 at yahoo..com>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX]  Dennis's oil spray advice
To: dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com,  "North American Fruit Explorers"  <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 8:37  AM


 
I haven't experimented with the trees most Nafexers seem to grow.  I'm too far south, but it seems to me that innoculating your trees  with endomorphic and mycorhizal fungi should protect it from other  fungi for their entire lives without the need for expensive fungicide  sprays. The trees would be more resistant to environmental stresses  and produce better.




________________________________
 From: "dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com"  <dmnorton at royaloakfarmorchard.com>
To: North American Fruit  Explorers <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009  5:10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice

  
Alan,
 
The  protectants such as an EBDC  or Captan are non-systemic and actually kill spores as they  germinate before they have a chance to infect the plant.   They poison the metabolism of fungal cells at many levels.   Since they are multisite (multi-level) and fungi would have to  develop multiple mutations to overcome them, resistance is  unlikely.  So I go for the kill with the first spray since the  leaves are just beginning to grow. At green tip, there isn't much  leaf there to absorb a systemic spray like an  SI. 
 
The Strobilurins (Flint/Sovran) have single-site mode  of action and that makes them prone to resistance development.   With Sterol Inhibitors (Nova/Rally) that inhibit different points in  the sterol synthesis pathway, resistance development tends to be  more gradual, but is still possible none the less.  Since they  are systemic, they will penetrate the leaf which gives them some  "reach back" effect and I think are better used after 1/2"  green.
 
Right now, Dithane is cheaper than  Captan plus you shouldn't use Captan within 10 days of an oil  spray.  We always have issues when we spray oil and try to  follow-up with Captan due to the weather, so that is another  reason I choose an EBDC for the first spray in the years we spray  oil.  It gives me a bit more  flexibility. 
 
Because of the resistance issues, I'm  using an anti-resistant scab management program based on rotating  different classes of fungicides.  Here's my timing  breakdown:
 
GREEN TIP - 1 to 2  applications of an Captan or EBDC (Dithane)  at full  rate
 
PREEBLOOM - 1 to 2  applications of a Strobilurin (Flint or Sovran) or an EBDC or Captan  or an EBDC & Captan (each at 1/2 rate)
 
PINK & BLOOM - 1  to 2 applications of an SI (Rally - Nova is now Rally) mixed with an  EBDC or Captan (1/2 rate) or EBDC OR EBDC or Captan (full  rate)
 
PETAL FALL, FIRST COVER - 1 to 2 applications of a Strobilurin (Flint or Sovran) OR  Captan (EBDC cannot be used after Bloom)
 
SUMMER - Classic  protectant except an EBDC such as Captan or Pristine (carboxamide and  a strobilurin)
 
I'm sure you know all of this, but I  went into a bit more information for the benefit of those who are not  aware of the differences between the various fungicide sprays.  I  would be interested in knowing what approach you take in scab  management. 
 
     
Dennis Norton
Royal Oak Farm Orchard
Office (815)  648-4467
Mobile (815) 228-2174
Fax (609)  228-2174
http://www.royaloakfarmorchard..com/
http://www.theorchardkeeper.blogspot.com/
http://www.revivalhymn.com/
-----  Original Message ----- 
From: Alan Haigh 
To: nafex at lists..ibiblio.org 
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 5:26 AM
Subject: [NAFEX] Dennis's oil spray advice

Dennis, your explanation of oil application was comprehensive  and articulate- I made a copy for my files.  I have a question-  why do you prefer using an EBDC over an SI in early spray?  I  can't see the advantage to mancozeb over say,  myclobutinil.

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