[NAFEX] Aronia x Sorbus ; Sorbus domestica

Hans Brinkmann hans-brinkmann at t-online.de
Wed Jan 10 19:01:59 EST 2007


Hallo Mark,
 From most but not all Sorbus crosses I have at least few fruits.
In general it takes really 4 to 6 years to bear fruits. Like eg. apples 
or pears too.
I grafted some on older S. aucuparia rootstock, to make it faster.
I have had the same thoughts like you:
This season, I start the first time to grow my own seedlings from these 
crosses.
I will inform you. I think the result must be very interesting. But I do 
not have any knowledge
about the possible result.

Yes, In future, I like to cross them with big size Crataegus and others...
A cross between Sorbus domestica and Pyrus must be too nice, but 
probably impossible.

Sorbus domestica is a "must" in the German Apple-wine. Not only for the 
taste.
Of course some Germans are producing also a pure domestica Snaps... but 
do not expect the taste too nice.

ciao
Hans Germany

Mark and Piper schrieb:
> Hans,
> The story on these interspecies crosses is not over. I have these questions:
>
> Of the ones you grow, which ones have fruited for you?
> How many seasons did it take until you got fruit? I have read it takes 7 to
> 10 years until first fruit for some of these crosses.
> Do you grow any seedlings of these crosses? If so, are the next generation
> true to the previous?
> Are you thinking of doing any crosses yourself?
>
> I am glad to hear Sorbus domestica finds use in apple wine. That is where I
> would like to use them.
>
> -Mark Lee, Seattle
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Hans Brinkmann" <hans-brinkmann at t-online.de>
> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Aronia x Sorbus ; Sorbus domestica
>
>
>   
>> Hallo Mark,
>> nice to hear Sorbus domestica is growing in Seattle.
>> Your flavor description is very right and interesting.
>> Actually the fruits are absolute necessary for apple-wine  production
>> and used
>> for cooking and fine cuisine like ice cream, backed fruits, marmalade...
>> Anyhow the fruits are looking very interesting and each seedling has
>> different ones.
>> E.g. the shape, the size, the color, the taste of the fruits...
>> Trees do not like acid soil.
>>
>> ciao
>> hans brinkmann Germany
>>
>> Mark and Piper schrieb:
>>     
>>> Just for the record, I have some Sorbus domestica seedlings in my
>>>       
> garden.
>   
>>> They are 2 feet tall and 2 years old. I have tasted fruit from the
>>>       
> mother
>   
>>> tree. Not for everyone, but an intersting flavor, like a ripe Flemish
>>>       
> Beauty
>   
>>> pear with astringency.
>>> -Mark Lee, Seattle
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Hans Brinkmann" <hans-brinkmann at t-online.de>
>>> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:27 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Aronia x Sorbus ; Sorbus domestica
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> Hallo Lon,
>>>> people who are interested in S. domestica are very rare...
>>>> People who have such a nice homepage and experience like you are
>>>> extremely rare!!!
>>>> Regards also from Clive Simms from England!
>>>>
>>>> Yes the astringency is lost at a special time by it selves. Anyhow this
>>>> astringency is also necessary and positive for the apple-wine
>>>> production. The fruits are used also more and more in the fine cuisine
>>>> cooking. Even as dessert and ice cream. The tree is very useful for
>>>> landscaping and environmental purposes.
>>>> The wood is really nice and very, very high priced because it is very
>>>> much used in music-instrument, expensive furniture and e.g. ruler
>>>> production; because the wood is not shrinking and expanding like other
>>>> wood! I try to send you an interesting photo directly to your e-mail
>>>> address.
>>>>
>>>> The grafting is not secret at all, but I think in many countries this
>>>> Sorbus domestica is not known and people do not have any experience.
>>>> The rootstock can be Crataegus monog. or Sorbus domestica! Never try S.
>>>> aucuparia. But if you see my photo, you will understand, why I do never
>>>> recommend Crataegus... (1 m diameter timber-log)!
>>>> On S.domestica rootstock I graft usually in winter-days with heat but I
>>>> tried it also once with a 1,5 m high growing rootstock outside in early
>>>> spring with okulation and the new branch was growing additional 1 m the
>>>> same year. I may answer you more detailed  directly. E.g. walnut
>>>> grafting is much less successful.
>>>>
>>>> Only one nursery in Germany is selling two different varieties. I
>>>> collected some more selections. In future we should select also
>>>> different taste/astringency, different time of harvesting and different
>>>> growth of tree. This will be not too difficult, because the trees are
>>>> varying very much.  Some fruits  are like peas  and some like  little
>>>> pears or apples.  We can give you  - as Clive promised to you - any
>>>> scions (also other trees) and if you need, I could give you also very
>>>> small one year old bare root grafts. From most selections. If you need
>>>> special varieties I could graft them additionally this season for you.
>>>>
>>>> ciao
>>>> hans
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lon J. Rombough schrieb:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> I have a row of Sorbus domestica seedlings started from seed collected
>>>>> from some of the trees at Luther Burbank's plantings in Sebastopol,
>>>>> California. Mine are extremely astringent, but any bump or bruise
>>>>> triggers something in the fruit that gets rid of the astringency very
>>>>> quickly. A bruised fruit becomes edible within a few hours, though the
>>>>> flavor keeps changing if it sits for a full day or more.
>>>>> I once discussed this tree with the late Larry McGraw of Sheep Rock,
>>>>> Oregon who had a number of old seedlings. Larry was the most avid
>>>>> fruit explorer I've ever met. He said the wood is hard enough to dull
>>>>> an ax very quickly, and he could only grow the trees from seed. He had
>>>>> never been able to graft them successfully. That fits with what I have
>>>>> experienced. I would be interested to know how they are propagated in
>>>>> Germany.
>>>>> =Lon Rombough
>>>>> Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, *The Grape Grower, *at
>>>>> http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association
>>>>> "Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003.
>>>>> On Jan 5, 2007, at 2:46 PM, Hans Brinkmann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hallo Matt,
>>>>> in general all the Aronia x Sorbus x Hybrids are 2 to 5m tall.
>>>>> All berries looking more like Sorbus berries, but each have different
>>>>> size,
>>>>> color, juice and taste.
>>>>> Edible Sorbus aucuparia like e.g. Konzentra or Rossina or
>>>>>           
> Klosterneuburg
>   
>>>>> are important e.g for marmalade production in Europe since a long
>>>>>           
> time.
>   
>>>>> Aronia x Sorbus hybrids fruits are at http://www.biotaimi.fi/
>>>>> Then go to Pihlaja and finally to Pihlaja kasvatus-ja hoito - ohje
>>>>> Information after clicking the first Pihlaja photo.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice page about Shipova : http://www.ars-grin.gov/cor/cool/sorbo.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you know Sorbus domestica? It has 2 - 3 cm apple- or pear-shape
>>>>> fruits.
>>>>> Some old trees in Germany have logs of more than 1 m in diameter.
>>>>> The wood is one of the most highly priced wood in Germany.
>>>>> Fruits are a must for the apple-wine-production.
>>>>> We have some cultivars in Germany.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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