[nafex] Apples Trivias

Ed & Pat Fackler rocmdw at aye.net
Thu Aug 23 04:06:54 EDT 2001



"H.Dessureault" wrote:

> Doreen,
> I just read your  interesting post and something struck me because it brings up a discussion that I am currently having with another member of this group. Since the subject is Apple Trivias, here goes. :)
> We have a difference of opinion on the origin of the Williams Pride and I am expressing serious doubts about Purdue, etc. being the developpers of Williams Pride. I think, I have read somewhere that Purdue, etc. received the apple in 1983, for testing, and released it in 1988. I have heard several arguments to demonstrate that Purdue, etc. are the originator, which failled to convince me and you just provided another one with your list of PRI in the name of all their apples. So now, I know where the PRIde part of it came from.
> But, my point of view is that Williams Pride is a very old apple which was simply tested by Purdue, etc. and not developped by them, which is something else altogether. Maybe, they simply provided their approval as far as disease resistance goes. And the new name, too. Who knows!
> Can you provide some light on this topic...
> Do you know anyone, who could?

     My response----------

     Like all so-called "PRI" apples, William's Pride did indeed originate from this breeding program and was (unfortunately*) named in honor of Ed Williams who was involved in the entire process for some 30 years.  To check out the history of PRI go to Purdue' New Crop website.
     William's Pride is one of the finest early apples available save for one persistent problem.  That is its severe
sensativity to ca. deficiencies, or the tree itself (on most rootstocks) has a difficult time in ca. distribution to fruit.
And as a consequence, bitter-pit is a problem in most years.  This problem may be corrected by application of
hydrated lime (ca. in a readily available-to-the-tree form) at the drip line.  Foliar ca. is generally not a solution.
     *The reason why I think its name is inappropriate is that in and of itself, the name doesn't imply or inspire anything.  And this is not a cut on Ed Williams either.  I've known Ed for many years and he is a decent sort.

      Speaking of the PRI program, origin of Vf (scab resistant) gene, etc. as information there are several known
races or mutant forms of scab.  And in a few isolated ares in Europe the Vf gene doesn't work or there is a race (No. 5 or 6.) which infects these apples.  Conversely, in a few isolated areas here in the states (Pacific NW, west of the Cascades, I believe), scab doesn't infect some apples with N. Spy (susceptible back east) in the progeny.  Spigold comes to mind or a NAFEXer (whom I can't recall) told several years ago that Spigold simply didn't get scab when grown in the Seattle area and many, many others are heavily infected
each year.

     Anyway, to acquire a new resistant source for scab and other hopefully desirable breeding characteristics is the central reason why Phil Forsline, Herb Aldwinkle (and others) made collection trips to Kazahstan over the last 10-15 years.  Also, Frank Browning, in doing reasearch on his book, The Apple went to Kazahstan to view for himself these very old seedling trees and acquire personal history of these old seedling apple trees.
     Lastly, MAIA (a private breeding program here in the midwest) was fortunate enough to acquire several hundred Kazah apple seedlings which are now growing at Dawes Arboretum near Newark, Ohio.  Many of these
seedlings have late bloom, have been screened for resistance to several common diseases, etc.  Hopefully, among them will be some which possess enough legit qualities for breeding purposes.

     To another item re: apple.  Don Yellman recently mentioned something about Geneva Crab.  As information, this is a very large (2.5 to 3.5" when thinned properly) redfleshed crab with very high acids. Also, be advised that it is a triploid which means that it will require a nearby pollinator.  The tree is absolutely beautiful with good form, maroonish-green leaves which are very large, large pinkish-maroon flowers and of course, the flesh is deep maroon with uniform color to the seed cavity (vs mottled, like a lot of
redfleshed apples.).  It's chief value (other than landscape) is cider blending and with the addition of a nonbrowning agent, it will make a pinkish colored cider.  Fred Janson had this process down to a fine science.

     This is a bit windy, but thought you'd like know some of these little details of apples.

Ed, So. Indiana, heaven, etc.







>
> Thanks so much...
> Hélène
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Doreen Howard
>   To: nafex at yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 4:15 PM
>   Subject: [nafex] Apples Trivia, What's Ripe, Etc.
>
>   I just got back from a short trip to So. IL where the apples are ripening.
>   This is important to me for two reasons:
>   1.  I am an apple fanatic--eat a couple every day and love the diversity of
>   flavors.
>   2.  I currently don't have an apple tree
>
>   I brought home Sanza, Ginger Gold, Geneva Early Crabs, Sterns, Pink Pearl
>   and Rosemary Russet.  The Galas will be picked in the next couple of days.
>   This orchard is Zone 5b, BTW.
>
>   Here is an interesting tidbit sent to me by an apple expert that I thought
>   I'd pass along to you apple enthusiasts.
>
>   "Michael Pollen did a huge NY Times article about genetic diversity in
>   apples a few years ago.  (But he had some of his facts wrong.  I checked
>   this by calling Phil Forsline at Cornell who verified that Pollen had
>   misquoted him as saying that the "antique" apples had greater disease
>   resistance than newer ones.  That's a common misconception, so I was unhappy
>   that someone of Pollen's stature was perpetuating it.  Pollen probably still
>   believes it but he didn't get it from Forsline.  Forsline's point that
>   Pollen misunderstood was that the native apples in Kazakistan (where apples
>   originated) seem to have evolved around the old world strains of scab.  They
>   claim there are many trees of clean fruit in the wild apple forests in
>   Kazakistan  (wouldn't you love to see that?!)  That is where the diversity
>   in apple genes lies.  All cultivated apples (including the antiques) are
>   from a very narrow slice of the gene pool.  You know the scab resitant trait
>   (in Freedom, Liberty, the whole PurdueRutgersIllinois series - PRIma,
>   PRIcilla, Sir PRIze, EnterPRIise, William's PRIde, etc.) was introduced from
>   native American crabs.  That leads me to the theory that our native crabs
>   had a chance to evolve around new world scabs.  Forsline says the old-world
>   and new-world strains of scab are different."
>
>   Doreen Howard
>
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