[cc-sampling] sampling/recombo

Glenn Otis Brown glenn at creativecommons.org
Fri Aug 6 14:30:17 EDT 2004


>
> It's about more than that- its about being responsible for things you 
> set in motion, about being respectful of the time and energy of those 
> you ask to help, and about  sticking with the process you set up up to 
> debate, discuss  and make decisions, and not bailing when it becomes 
> "annoying".

I am genuinely sorry, Mark, that I've let you down on this. I can only 
say that I am responsible for many things that we've set in motion 
across the organization, that I do get very busy with the dozens of 
other projects like this going on at any time, and that I make lots of 
cost-benefit decisions on the fly, and that sometimes one project gets 
bumped down the triage list. (Right now I'm writing this email instead 
of doing a press release, two annual reports, responding to 150 recent 
emails, and a dozen other things that are due today.) But after reading 
your last email I can see where you're coming from, and am sorry, and 
would like to make up for it if that's possible.

I could contest a lot of what you say below, but I obviously that 
wouldn't be productive. I'd like to focus on what we (or I) can do now 
-- provided that won't involve the sort of massive time sink that it 
jeopardizes our other many many projects.

Glenn


> Those things didn't happen so well -
>
> A year and a half ago Negativland  was invited to speak at a CC event 
> in SF. I planned for this in my schedule. At the last minute, things 
> were changed, and our appearance was dropped. This was somewhat 
> frustrating.
>
> In working on the  CC sampling license, Glenn/CC would periodically go 
> completely silent for a month or more, with no explanation, leaving us 
> all hanging and not knowing what was up. This was confusing and 
> frustrating and happened on at least 3 occasions I can recall.
>
> Commitments were then made about getting back to the list in a timely 
> way. Sometimes that didn't happen. This was confusing and frustrating 
> when Negativland remained very committed to seeing this project 
> through. Commitments were made about when the official  announcements 
> would go to the public. Then....more silence.
>
> There was talk of us attending a  sampling license "launch" in SF this 
> past winter or spring ( I can't recall the exact dates) . I penciled 
> this in and was in the dark about it until I was told it was  
> cancelled.
>
> Last summer Glenn agreed to write  some text for the next Negativland 
> project. Many months went by with no text forthcoming. When I asked 
> about it, there was silence...I tried again...more silence....and 
> then, finally,  a commitment to sit down and actually write it. 
> But....nothing happened. More silence. More months went by (it caused 
> us to have to delay our release schedule as we kept waiting for it and 
> really wanted to include it). It did finally get done, though only 
> after 8 months or more of pestering. This was very confusing and 
> frustrating, especially considering that we "worked" for CC on an 
> entirely volunteer basis. (Unlike Glenn, we are not paid).
>
> Glenn invited Negativland  to be part of the launch in Brazil this 
> summer  and I tried to work this into  my schedule, yet could get no 
> reply for nearly 2 months about wether it was really happening or not. 
>  This was *extremely* confusing and frustrating as we got closer and 
> closer to the actual date of going to Brazil and had no idea what was 
> up.
>
> And, finally, with CC totally dropping  the decision making process we 
> were the project leads for,  there was the brief announcement of the 
> seemingly arbitrary re-naming of the sampling license into the name 
> RECOMBO.  My comments on this were made to the list  and were 
> completely ignored for almost 2 months.  There has been no real 
> response or explanation  of  any of this by CC until today.
>
> To all at CC reading this- I am sure  things look very different and 
> valid from your end. I acknowledge that and wish you all the best of 
> luck in future endeavors.  But perhaps you can see how the 
> accumulation of all these events listed above  might gradually lead 
> someone outside of CC to think you guys can be more than a little bit 
> flakey, unprofessional, autocratic, careless, and disrespectful of the 
> time and effort put into your projects by volunteers.
>
> I can't speak for Don, but this has made it  darn hard for me to stay 
> enthused about working with you folks. Others on this list seem to 
> express similar thoughts, and that's something you might want to think 
> about in how you handle your future projects.
>
> I wish I felt better about all this, because in the bigger picture, 
> the stuff CC is doing  and the stuff we did with CC is a good thing.
>
>
> appropriatively yours,
> Mark Hosler
> Negativland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Just say that a few times out loud, and think about everything else 
>> going on in the world, and even in the world of copyright, before 
>> reading onward.
>>
>> Now on to the details.
>>
>> (1) The change is just in name (yes, this will be a refrain):
>>
>> The license hasn't changed a bit in substance -- not at all, not even 
>> a letter. It still embodies Negativland's idea for free 
>> transformative derivatives. It still contains the ban on advertising 
>> -- an idea which, for those of you who have been on the list from the 
>> beginning will remember, I originally opposed as untenable, but which 
>> we wound up including in the license anyway -- and which I now come 
>> to see as absolutely crucial, as Negativland's arguments have sunk in 
>> over time. I think this fact -- and the fact we have had this 
>> discussion publicly at all -- say a lot about (1) how much we care 
>> about this license being good and (2) how much we truly value and act 
>> on input. Aspects of this license -- the license itself, actually -- 
>> would not exist if we hadn't established and listened to this list.
>>
>> (2) The change isn't necessarily permanent or irreversible:
>>
>> Like everything we do, there's room and time for change, if that's 
>> what is necessary. So don't spaz. It's not like we took the dollar 
>> off the gold standard or blew up a dam and flooded a village. Get 
>> some perspective. If disaster ensues, if people's heads explode 
>> trying to decipher the meaning of the word Recombo, we'll consider 
>> changing it.
>>
>> (3) Go ahead
>>
>> As Kelty notes, if people want to continue calling it Sampling, I'm 
>> not going to send out our standing million-man army to stop you. (No, 
>> wait, that's China with the million-man army; we have 5 full-time 
>> employees, some part-timers, and a lot of great volunteers, but none 
>> of them is particularly prone to or capable of repression.) Please, 
>> do as you wish.
>>
>> (4) The change to Recombo:
>>
>> When we launched Creative Commons in Brazil, part of the process was 
>> to translate the sampling licenses. In the process, the Brazil 
>> volunteers renamed the license "Recombinacao," the Portuguese 
>> translation.
>>
>> (a) The night before the big event in Porto Alegre (described in the 
>> links posted earlier to this list), the Brazil team and the CC team 
>> started talking about the names of the licenses, and we thought it 
>> would be cool to have an internationalized name -- one more or less 
>> pronounceable and understandable across many countries (because based 
>> on a latin root). In every way we're trying to become a more 
>> international organization; wouldn't it be cool if we could coin an 
>> international-friendly term that conveyed the the full range of 
>> possibilities, we thought? The license is not merely about "sampling" 
>> after all. (Plus, this list had exactly zero feedback from 
>> non-English speaking representatives. Might be nice to give them some 
>> input, I thought.)
>>
>> (b) Our Brazilian project lead Ronaldo said that re:combo was the 
>> name of a avant garde art movement in northern Brazil that perfectly 
>> embodied the spirit of the license; that was a nice little 
>> coincidence. Icing.
>>
>> (c) Next, and of particular importance, this was a decision made in 
>> the excitement of the moment -- when we knew we'd have an audience of 
>> 1000 people (yes, 1000 people came) hearing about CC for the first 
>> time in their home country; when our highest-profile licensor by far 
>> (Gil) was about to release a song; when the largest newspaper in 
>> Brazil had just run a front page story in its entertainment section 
>> in Brazil on the entire event, and more Brazilian press was poised to 
>> follow-up.
>>
>> (d) Most important, it seemed like a nice gesture to Mr. Gil and the 
>> Brazil team, who have put in many months of work to make Creative 
>> Commons a possibility in Brazil. They have put in at least as much 
>> time and constructive effort as the leads on this list, and far more 
>> than almost everyone else on this list combined.
>>
>> And let's not forget -- or maybe I haven't been clear enough about 
>> this on this list, which is my fault -- that Gil brought us the idea 
>> for this license around the same time Negativland did. The Brazil 
>> team has done an amazing job making Creative Commons a reality in a 
>> hugely important country in the global IP debate. This email list got 
>> the opportunity to create the actual license, and I'm very grateful 
>> for that. But I hope it's not so controversial that another crucial 
>> Creative Commons stakeholder from another part of the world got to 
>> contribute in their own way -- without *in any way* affecting the 
>> substance of the license? I hope this diplomatic point gets through, 
>> now that I've explained it, and I am sorry I didn't take the time to 
>> explain it before.
>>
>> (5) My fault
>>
>> I do wish I'd made this explanation earlier, just to give you insight 
>> on our thinking on this. But I really didn't think it would be this 
>> big a deal. It's just the *name* of the license, after all. Full 
>> explanations take a lot of time and energy sometimes, particularly on 
>> this list, which frankly can get very tedious and talk-talk-talk with 
>> little resolution. Which leads me to my next point:
>>
>> (6) My participation on this list
>>
>> I, like most people, when confronted with a choice between (a) doing 
>> important work that does not give me a headache and (b) doing 
>> important work that gives me a massive headache, will choose (a).  
>> Now, most of the discussion on this list has been hugely productive. 
>> Negativland's substantive contributions are invaluable. But there 
>> have been many times in the past when my heart sinks just to think 
>> about reading the latest 2000-word diatribe about this or that, with 
>> exactly no positive, constructive recommendation resulting. (You 
>> think I exaggerate? Just pick an email from the archive.) Let alone 
>> to go about responding, only to be ignored or have words put in my 
>> mouth or fantastic paranoid scenarios of Halliburtonesque scope 
>> attributed to me. I guess it'd be nice to be so powerful, but if I 
>> were, I wouldn't be typing a response an email list at midnight, 
>> would I?
>>
>> Early on on this list I proposed that Attribution be an optional 
>> element in the license, only to be told that this would be 
>> "anti-artist" and that attribution was the key to getting artist 
>> participation. So I agreed and switched my position. I was then told, 
>> by the same person, that requiring Attribution was "fascist." (The 
>> ideological hyperbole on this list is really something else.)
>>
>> All this is to say that participating on this list is a massive pain, 
>> much more than anything I've seen on any list we have. I'm not drawn 
>> to spend a lot of time doing unnecessarily painful things, or 
>> (incredibly) to being cast a villain or tyrant. I bust my ass for and 
>> care a lot about this organization and I don't have to have my time 
>> wasted after a certain point. You'll forgive me for avoiding the 
>> headache from time to time, when other work needs tending to.
>>
>> (7) The purpose of this list
>>
>> The purpose of this list is not to vote, and even less to have 
>> squeaky wheels determine outcomes. I've been over this before, but 
>> here it is again. (See attached image or this page: 
>> http://creativecommons.org/discuss)
>>
>> This image makes clear: ultimately CC is going to make the decision. 
>> That decision doesn't have to be final, forever, but it does have to 
>> come from us ultimately. Those who work here have a fiduciary duty to 
>> this organization. You do not. I shouldn't really have to explain 
>> that. And if you think that there's no difference between (a) an 
>> advisory list, with several public suggestions being folded into the 
>> final product, and (b) no list at all, I really can't help you.
>>
>> I would think that you'd understand if we're more open about the 
>> fundamentals of the license (what really matters) than we are about 
>> marketing (all this about the *name* of a license?). And besides, 
>> like I said, the lack of consultation on the name change was mostly a 
>> function of (1) a time crunch and (2) consideration for other players 
>> in the CC universe who happen not to be on this list.
>>
>> Again, I apologize for not explaining all this more quickly. Again, 
>> if the sky falls on us, we'll consider changing the name. In the 
>> meantime, let's recognize exactly what all this is about:
>>
>> You all were genuinely instrumental in helping create the actual 
>> license. As a matter of marketing and international goodwill and 
>> timing, we changed its NAME. If we've made an error in judgment, it's 
>> our error, not yours, and we can always change it back. (Just as 
>> we've changed many things about our other licenses after getting 
>> feedback from the public: 
>> http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/4216)
>>
>> In the grand scheme of things -- the forest, the actual struggle that 
>> we're all involved in -- this is big whoop over not much.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Content-Type: image/gif;
>> 	x-unix-mode=0666;
>> 	name="discuss-full.gif"
>> Content-Disposition: inline;
>> 	filename=discuss-full.gif
>>
>> Attachment converted: 12 GiggleByte drive:discuss-full.gif 
>> (GIFf/prvw) (0010253F)
>> _______________________________________________
>> cc-sampling mailing list
>> cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-sampling
>
>
> --
> © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © ©
> AHOY THERE! I have changed my e-mail address and it is now -
>
> mark / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>
>
> My old address at markhosler at charter.net is no longer being used.
> _______________________________________________
> cc-sampling mailing list
> cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-sampling
>

Glenn Otis Brown
Executive Director
Creative Commons
glenn at creativecommons.org
+1.415.946.3065 (telephone)
+1.415.336.1433 (mobile)
------------------------------------
(cc) Some rights reserved.
------------------------------------




More information about the cc-sampling mailing list