[cc-licenses] Version 4:0:Rebranding "noncommercial" to "commercial rights reserved": please don't!
zotz at 100jamz.com
Tue Apr 24 21:27:33 EDT 2012
On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 20:29:59 -0400, Anthony <osm at inbox.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 24, 2012 at 10:04 AM, drew Roberts <zotz at 100jamz.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday 24 April 2012 07:51:00 Anthony wrote:
>>> If the original author can't exercise his right to the commercial
>>> option, presumably s/he can't permit anyone else to use the work
>>> commercially either. So this means, for instance, s/he can't put the
>>> work up on a facebook page, since facebook profits off facebook pages,
>> Wait. Are you maintinging that only the copyright holder can put NC licensed
>> works on Facebook? (Because facebook makes money, not because of their TOS.)
> It is my understanding that the NC licenses do not allow you to
> distribute NC images on a page where you make money off advertising.
OK, so *I* can't put an NC image on a page where *I* make money from
advertising. But in the case you name, facebook would be making the
money, not me. If facebook did not have a TOS or had one that did not
demand rights be given from account holders in the case of cc licensed
works. I think it could fly.
> This is what Facebook does. So they can't do it based on the NC
> license, only with the permission of the copyright holder.
As I say, facebook is more like a hoster for someone else's page and
they put up the NC image and do not make money from it.
> Is there something with this analysis which you disagree with?
I think the analysis is flawed. I think you may reach the correct
outcome for the wrong reasons though. I think you might not even be able
to put up a BY-SA derivative picture you create on facebook either and
not because advertising money is being made.
>> Are you maintaining that a person cannot take and NC book to a printer and pay
>> to have 10 copies printed to give away as gifts?
> Who is making the copies?
The print shop makes the copies for / at the direction of the customer
who pays for them. The customer then takes them and gives them away as
If it is the printer, then the printer
> needs permission, and NC does not give that permission. If it's the
> person hiring the printer, then they don't need permission.
You are saying that they, the printer, don't need permission in this
> see it argued either way. It probably depends on the facts of the
> In any case, practically speaking, what's the difference between a
> person taking an NC book to a printer and paying to have 10 copies
> printed, and a printer offering copies of an NC book made-to-order?
Oh the joys of the NC clause.
> Is there an actual argument that one of these is exploiting the author
> (*), and the other isn't?
> (*) Or whatever the argument is in favor of NC.
Let's break it down further. Let's assume a DIY space where you can go
in and rent the necessary copy / binding / etc. machines and make your
own 10 copies of an NC book to give away to friends. Can the space not
>> If so, let's discuss, if not, you have the answer to the question you posed.
> Let's discuss.
Does that start the discussion off on a good footing?
>> When someone makes a copy of an NC work and gives it to someone else, lots of
>> people get and income and may make a profit. It is just that the person
>> making the copy does not get the revenue and the person getting the copy may
>> not pay anything in the process.
> It is my understanding that one cannot make copies of an NC work and
> give it to someone else, if they know that someone else is going to
> make a profit.
I don't need to argue that point, just stipulate that they don't know.
> That would mean that their copying was "directed
> toward commercial advantage or private monetary compensation".
> But maybe I'm wrong about this. This is what I was told when I
> questioned whether or not it was okay for me to make 1000 copies of an
> NC work, and give them to a friend, who then sold them.
The one that first through me for a loop with NC was being told that a
corporation could never make copies of an NC work because everything
they ever do is by definition commercial.
all the best,
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