[b-hebrew] fred on 2 tenses at the same sentence
if at math.bu.edu
Wed Feb 2 10:52:47 EST 2011
1. DAR$-AH is present? E$ET XAIL is the main shabat-night PIUT, sung
before meal with great gusto, extolling the virtuous and diligent
deeds of Mrs. Busy-Busy (who is sitting beaming at the table opposite
her husband, Mr. GEBER-GEBER, with all her children around her K-
$TIYL-EY ZEIT-IYM) during the previous week (during the week Mr.
GEBER-GEBER is busy sitting at the town gate with "ZIQN-EI AREC").
2. VA-TA-AS is: (and it came to pass that)-she-do. The past is
indicated by the attached verb VA.
Isaac Fried, Boston University
On Feb 2, 2011, at 9:52 AM, fred burlingame wrote:
> i'm happy for the agreement with the mainstream conclusion.
> but .... then we arrive at .... proverbs 31:13 .....
> 1. root + PP indicates present acton, as in "dar-sha?"
> 2. VA + PP + root indicates present action, as in "va-ta-as?"
> i agree with your paragraph 4, assuming the equivalency of "bet"
> and "vav" letters.
> fred burlingame
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Isaac Fried <if at math.bu.edu> wrote:
> Appears to me that we are in agreement without the need for
> "conversion". PP = personal pronoun.
> 1. root+PP indicates past action, as in BA-TA = BA-ATAH.
> 2. PP+root indicates future action as in TA-BO. Also PP+root+PP, as
> in TA-BO-YI.
> 3. VA+PP+root indicates past action, as in VA-TA-BO. Also VA+PP+root
> +PP, as in VA-TA-BO-YI.
> 4. It is really late at night, but can we agree that VA means
> something like 'and it came to pass that'?
> 5. It is not clear to me at the moment what is the role of the L in
> VA-YI-LAKAX, 'he was taken', as compared with VA-YI-KAX, 'he took'.
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:52 PM, fred burlingame wrote:
>> that is my understanding .... of the mainstream view ....
>> vav prefixed to a pronomial prefixed verb .... functions as
>> a. conjunction; and
>> b. tense converter.
>> but i am not unmindful of your teaching .... to wit:
>> ו (vav) = ב (bet), whose literal meaning = thicken; and whose
>> abstract meaning = to come into being; and which latter letter
>> births in turn the verb בוא (boh or voh).
>> perhaps the solution resides in the eternal perspective, rather
>> than the space/time perspective of our universe. .... in other
>> words, the hebrew language sees only the present .... or "avraham
>> acts again and takes a woman" ....; no past; no future, only
>> present; and pronomial suffixed verbs = pronomial prefixed
>> verbs .... much as noun synonyms ... :)
>> fred burlingame
>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Isaac Fried <if at math.bu.edu> wrote:
>> 3. So is this a "conjunction" vav (it is actually VA, not a mere
>> V) or a "conversive" vav, or both?
>> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>> On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:04 PM, fred burlingame wrote:
>>> that is my understanding of the conventional wisdom ... the ebb
>>> and flow of the tide:
>>> 1. לקח , la-ka = base form of verb, pronomial suffix form (but
>>> without pronoun appearing in this instance), and instructing past
>>> 2. יקח , yi-ka = iteration no. 1, pronomial prefix form of
>>> verb, with pronoun yod appearing and instructing future tense;
>>> 3. ויקח , va-yi-ka = iteration no. 2, pronomial prefix form of
>>> verb, with pronoun yod appearing, and conjunction vav also
>>> prefixed, which converts verb back into past tense.
>>> fred burlingame
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