[b-hebrew] WELSH AND HEBREW

Vadim Cherny him at vadimcherny.org
Fri Mar 27 15:14:12 EDT 2009


I see random phrases rather than idioms in your examples. Isaac Mozeson 
(The Word) collected a heap of apparent Hebraisms in other languages, 
some surprisingly meaningful, but still short of proving any systemic 
correlation.
On other hand, there is indeed a very strong idiomatic and etymological 
correlation between Hebrew and Russian, amply documented in Steinberg's 
dictionary.

Vadim Cherny

GuerrillaVille wrote:
> The Israeli government has posted an article on their web site stating 
> that Welsh is in fact influenced by Hebrew.
> http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Israel%20beyond%20the%20conflict/Bringing%20a%20Language%20Back%20from%20the%20Dead 
>
>
> "Welsh is the language most influenced by the Hebrew experience," 
> explains Amnon Schapiro, a researcher at the Academy of the Hebrew 
> Language. "In the 1960s a national network of Welsh language classes 
> was set up based on the Hebrew model." In fact, the Welsh even refer 
> to a Welsh class as an ulpan, taken from the Hebrew, meaning classes 
> which are especially designed for new immigrants to learn the 
> language. "The Welsh are confronted by a different problem than 
> Israel," explains Schapiro. "The number of native Welsh speakers was 
> eroded by the influence of English. With the help of ulpanim the trend 
> has been reversed."
>
> Beyond the links below are article excerpts showing that Welsh *idiom* 
> is often identical to Hebrew, let alone the words. The coincidences 
> run into the thousands. History shows that idiom does not cross the 
> language barrier, so if two languages pretty much have absolutely 
> interchangeable idioms then they must have the same source not too far 
> removed. The common Welsh people certainly did not have Hebrew OT 
> manuscripts and Hebrew schools, so where did the overarching influence 
> of Hebrew in their language come from?
>
> Equally mysterious is the relationship between paleo-Hebrew and 
> ancient Runic, both apparently from Phoenician. The alphabets DO NOT 
> share a common source unless that common source is each other or the 
> Phoenician.
>
> source and related articles
> http://www.britam.org/language.html
> EXCERPTS:
>
> In 1675 Charles Edwards ("Hanes y Fydd") published A number of Welsh 
> Cambro-Brittanic Hebraisms in which he shows that whole phrases in 
> Welsh can be closely paralleled by whole phrases in Hebrew.
>
> From the list of Charles Edwards, L.G.A. Roberts (1919) made a 
> selection and we have selected examples from Roberts after slightly 
> modernising the Hebrew transliterations : It should be noted that when 
> account is taken for likely and known dialectical changes of 
> pronounciation the examples given in effect show identical Welsh 
> parallel phrases for the Hebrew original.
>
> In Welsh: Gael hedd (Gen.31;47) meaning Geledd i.e. heap of testimony= 
> in Hebrew : Galaed.
>
> In Welsh: Bagad meaning "A troop cometh ?" (Gen.30;11) = in Hebrew
>
> In Welsh : Anudon meaning "Without God" = in Hebrew: Aen Adon.
>
> In Welsh : Yni all sy dda meaning "I am the Almighty God" (Gen. 17;1) 
> = in Hebrew: Ani El Saddai.
>
> In Welsh : Llai iachu yngwyddd achau ni meaning "Let him not live 
> before our brethren" (Gen. 31;32) = in Hebrew Loa yichei neged acheinu 
> (Gen.31;32).
>
> In Welsh Ochoren ballodddi hoc-dena meaning "After I am waxed old 
> shall I have pleasure?" = in Hebrew : Acharei belothi hedenah 
> (Gen.18;12).
>
> In Welsh Bebroch fra am beneu ach ef, dyfet Deborah mam ianceth 
> Ribecah meaning "When he fled from the face of his brother . But 
> Deborah Rebecca's nurse died" (Gen. 35;7-8) = in Hebrew :  Beborcho 
> mpnei achiv vetamath Deborah mayneceth Ribecah.
>
> In Welsh: Yngan Job yscoli yscoli cynghaws i (Job 6;1,2) meaning "Job 
> answered, O that my grief were thoroughly weighed" = in Hebrew:  
> Veya(g)n Eyub ....shocol yishocal ca(g)si
>
> In Welsh: Amelhau bytheu chwi a bythau holl ufyddau chwi meaning "And 
> they shall fill your house and the houses of all your servants" (Gen. 
> 10;6) = in Hebrew: Umalu bathechoh and bathei col avedochoh.
>
> In Welsh Iachadd ni meaning "Thou hast healed me" = in Hebrew: 
> hechiyatni.
>
> In Welsh Nesa awyr peneu chwi meaning "Lif thou up the light of thy 
> countenance" = in Hebrew: nasa aor panechoh.(Psalms 4;6.).
>
> In Welsh An annos meaning "None did compel" = in Hebrew: ain ones. 
> (Esther 1;8).
>
> In Welsh As chwimwth meaning "an angry man" = in Hebrew: ish chamas 
> (Psalms 140;12 Proverbs 16;29 meaning a wickedly-violent man).
>
> In Welsh Be heulo, luerferfo (Job 6;4) meaning "When his candle shined 
> ..... and by his light.." = in Hebrew: behilo, leoroe.
>
> In Welsh Bwgythieu in gwarchaeni (Job 6;4) meaning "The terrors of God 
> set themselves in array against me = in Hebrew: Biu(g)thi elohai 
> ya-a(g)rchuni.
>
> In Welsh I far meaning "Shall be cursed" = Hebrew : Yu-ar, yuv-ar. 
> (Numbers 22;6).
>
> In Welsh Am geryddo fo meaning "At his reproof" = in Hebrew :im ge-arato.
>
> Godfrey Hughes "The Celtic Druids" (1829) quotes from a certain Welsh 
> Translation of the Bible in which similar examples as the above are 
> apparent:
>
> In Welsh By-lllwng Adon-ydb holl neuodh Jago meaning "The Lord has 
> swallowed up all the tabernacles of Jacob" (Lamentations 2;2) = Hebrew 
> : Balla(ng) Adoni eth col neoth Yacob.
>
> In Welsh Dyrac buth-hi ai-i-sengyd meaning "The avenue of her dwelling 
> he would go to tread" (Proverbs 7;8) = Hebrew : Derech baithah 
> yitsa(ng)d.
>
> In Welsh Py yw-o sy maeloc y-cavad I-a-ywoo savwyod yw-o maeloc 
> y-cavad, Selah meaning "Who is the king of glory [attainment]? The 
> LORD of hosts , he is the king of glory. Selah" (Psalms 24;10) = 
> Hebrew: Mi hu zeh melec hacavod Y....Tsavaoth hu melec hacavod selah.
>
> The affinity between Hebrew and Welsh was mentioned by a certain Dr. 
> Davies (amongst others) and in the preface to his Welsh Grammar there was
> a poem to the effect that:
>
> He gladly deigns his countrymen to teach,
> By well-weigh?d rules, the rudiments of speech;
> That when the roots first of our own we gain,
> The Hebrew tongue we thence may soon attain .
>
> The Rev. Eliezer Williams (b.1754) wrote several works on the Celts 
> and made several remarks (quoted by Roberts p.23):
>
> "In the Hebrew...which the ancient British language greatly 
> resembles... "The roots of most of the ancient British, or real Welsh, 
> words may be regularly traced in the Hebrew.. "Scarcely a Hebrew root 
> can be discovered that has not its corresponding derivative in the 
> ancient British language...But not only..the words...their variations 
> and inflections afford a much stronger proof of affinity...The plural 
> number of nouns likewise is often formed in a similar manner in the 
> Celtic by adding in (a contraction of ??: i.e.-IM which is the suffix 
> used in Hebrew to form the masculine plural)...in the formation of 
> sentences, and in the government of words...the same syntax might 
> serve for both.....
>
> source and related articles
> http://www.britam.org/language.html
> http://www.british-israel.us/19.html
>
> -- Berkano
> http://www.BrainWashingTon.US
>
> </div>
>



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