[b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
Isaac Fried
if at math.bu.edu
Tue Sep 9 11:24:18 EDT 2008
It is dangerous business to pick out roots out of names, and it may
be misleading to attach to a root too an abstract a meaning, say
'consecrate' to XRM. I think XRM is related to GRM of 2 kings 9:13.
XERMON could be possibly a compacted form of the compounds HAR-RAM-)
ON or KAR-RAM-)ON, or HAR-MA(ON or KAR-MA(ON, or who nows what. BA(AL
is (= BA) essentially something lofty, as indicated by the letter L
present in it, as in (PL [see Numbers 14:44.]
Isaac Fried
Boston University
On Sep 8, 2008, at 12:57 AM, Yigal Levin wrote:
> Dear Kelton,
>
> More up-to-date archaeological data make it clear that there was
> never a "city" on the peak of Mt. Hermon. There are a few villages
> and some open-air cult sites, although none that I know of go back
> to the early Iron Age, which would be the relevant period. However,
> the Bible never actually says that Baal-Hermon was a "city". It
> makes a lot of sense to assume that there was a site dedicated to
> the worship of Baal on the peak of Hermon - we know that Baal was
> often associated with such peaks, such as Carmel and Baal-Zaphon.
> The name Hermon even seems to be derived from the root XRM -
> "consecrated". However there is no evidence, from either
> inscriptions or archaeology that such a place actually existed.
> PLUS, as I wrote before, Judges 3:3 seems to be a textual
> conflation of Josh. 13:5, which actually mentions "Baal-Gad under
> Mount Hermon".
>
> Yigal Levin
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kgraham0938 at comcast.net
> To: Yigal Levin ; b-hebrew
> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 2:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
>
>
> BDB, seems to think BA'AL HERMON is an actual city.
>
> BA'AL HERMON a city so named as seat of the worship of Baal. ‘The
> crest of Hermon is strewn with ruins and the foundations of a
> circular temple of large hewn stones,’ Tristr:Tpg, cf. on
> sacredness, Euseb. Lag:Onom 217: possibly = BA'AL GAD
>
> I'm wondering if it is possible that the various names in 1 Chron
> may refer to two different peaks?
>
> BDB says that Sener and Hermon are probably referring to these
> two peaks in 1 Chronicles
>
> It has three peaks; and the names Hermon and Sener
> aredistinguished in 1 Ch 5:23 Ct 4:8, may refer to two of these peaks;
>
> So maybe Ba'al Hermon is referring to an actual city & Hermon in
> 1 Ch is referring to one of the peaks of the mountain.
>
> --
> Kelton Graham
> KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Yigal Levin <leviny1 at mail.biu.ac.il>
>
>> I'll re-state the problem. While (Mount) Hermon is well-known and
>> appears quite
>> a few times in the Bible, the specific form "Baal-Hermon" appears
>> in ONLY two
>> sources, and both are problematic:
>> The first is in the boundary description of Judges 3:3: instead of
>> Joshua's
>> "Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon", Judges has "Baal-Hermon". Were this
>> the ONLY
>> source, there would be little doubt that this is a "ghost name"
>> created by
>> Judges' abbreviation of Josh. 13:5
>>
>> However, there's 1 Chr. 5. The geographical context is close
>> enough to make it
>> unlikely that this is a different place with the same name (unless
>> there's
>> another Hermon as well...). Where did Chr.'s description come
>> from? If it is
>> tak en from a source that is ultimately independent of Judges 3:3,
>> that would be
>> evidence of "Baal-Hermon" being a real place, which would force a
>> re-asessment
>> of the realationship between Judges 3:3 and Josh. 13:5 (that the
>> former is NOT
>> just an abbreviation of the latter). If not, then we have to
>> understand why Chr.
>> took only that term from Judges 3:3, in a description that seems
>> related to
>> Deut. 3.
>>
>> Yigal Levin
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: kgraham0938 at comcast.net
>> To: Yigal Levin ; b-hebrew ; biblical-studies at yahoogroups.com ;
>> biblicalist at yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Baal-Hermon
>>
>>
>> I'm wondering if BAAL-HERMON is referring to the high places that
>> exist on top
>> of Mt Hermon. Or maybe the NIV rendering is correct and take those
>> vavs as
>> appositional.
>>
>> ; 1 Chr onicles 5:23 The people of the half-tribe of Manasseh were
>> numerous;
>> they settled in the land from Bashan to Baal Hermon, that is, to
>> Senir (Mount
>> Hermon).
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kelton Graham
>> KGRAHAM0938 at comcast.net
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: Yigal Levin
>>
>>> Baal-Hermon appears in the boundary of the land not conquered by
>>> Joshua,
>>> according to the abbreviated description in Judges 3:3: "From Mount
>> Baal-Hermon
>>> unto Lebo-Hamath". In the more complete text in Josh. 13:5, the same
>> boundary is
>>> described as stretching "from Baal-Gad under Mount Hermon unto
>> Lebo-Hamath."
>>> While some scholars have attempted to explain the name "Baal-
>>> Hermon" as
>>> designating the peak of Mount Hermon, overlooking Baal-Gad itself
>> (probably in
>>> the sout hern Ba qa', near Hasbayeh), most assume either that the
>>> names are
>>> synonymous, or even that the version in Judges is erroneous, a
>>> "ghost
>>> place-name" caused by the abbreviated boundary-list. However Baal-
>>> Hermon
>> is also
>>> given as part of the bounda ry of the Transjordanian half-tribe of
>> Menasseh in 1
>>> Chr. 5:23: "from Bashan unto Baal-Hermon and Senir and Mount
>>> Hermon". This
>> could
>>> be seen either as evidence of there actually being such a place,
>>> which was
>> known
>>> to either the Chronicler or his immediate source, even though
>>> it is not mentioned anywhere else, or of the fact that the
>>> Chronicler or
>> his
>>> immediate source, when composing his description of the Menassite
>> territory,
>>> chose to combine this particular element from Judges 3:3 with the
>>> other
>> names
>>> that seem more based on Deut. 3:8-13 (w hich is the only other
>>> place in
>> which
>>> Hermon, Senir and Bashan are listed together, in a description of
>>> the
>>> Transjordanian tribes).
>>>
>>> So which is it: is there such a place (and where is it), or did the
>> Chronicler
>>> pick up a "ghost-name" from an unexpected source?
>>>
>>> Yigal Levin
>>> _________________________________ _______ _______
>>> b-hebrew mailing list
>>> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1655 - Release Date:
>> 05/09/2008
>> 19:05
>> _______________________________________________
>> b-hebrew mailing list
>> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1657 - Release Date:
> 06/09/2008 20:07
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
More information about the b-hebrew
mailing list