[b-hebrew] Qohelet chapter 12
Ron Snider
sarasotapt at comcast.net
Tue Apr 22 15:46:07 EDT 2008
I would assume that the NOW is simply the translators take on the VAV at
the beginning of the verse. I agree with you that BARA' is normally
used in the singular. However, your possibility (however plausible)
would need some more definitive proof IMHO. I still do not see any
justification for bringing in ancestors here, when the clear context
concerns the reality of youth and the recognition that God will judge
all actions. Further, I see no usage of it in the Qal to refer to human
creators.
Ron Snider
Isaac Fried wrote:
> Ron,
>
>
> I see that the KJV translates the first part of Ecclesiastes 12:1 as
>
> "Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth"
>
> First I notice that the translator sneaks in the word "now" not found
> in the Hebrew text. Then I see that he translates BOR)-EY-KA as "thy
> Creator" rather than "thy Creators", which is an outright
> falsification of the Hebrew text, unless he had before him a different
> version. The HB grandly opens with BRE)$IT BARA) ELOHIM, with BARA) in
> the singular not BAR)U in the plural.
>
> No wonder Pere is puzzled by this business of remembering the Creator(s).
>
> I do not think I need to prove anything; all I do is just raise a
> plausible [to me] possibility, which you may or may not accept.
>
> Otherwise, the BARE) of Ezekiel 21:24 is possibly just 'erect,
> produce'. Recall ,ZAKOR, also the BR) of Joshua 17:15, and the root of
> BARI), 'well formed', of Judges 3:17.
>
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
>
> On Apr 22, 2008, at 12:33 PM, Ron Snider wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am not in the habit of looking at foreign translations of the HB.
>>> In my Qoren edition of the TN"K the word BOR)-EY-KA is written with a
>>> yod [so also in the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia] and I see it as
>>> plural. Indeed, "Remember your Creator in the days of your youth"
>>> does not make as much sense as "Keep in mind your forebears [some
>>> old, some dead] in the days of your youth".
>>> I would relate this BR) to the BAR, 'son, child', of Proverbs 31:2
>>>
>>
>> I do agree that the participle is plural, other than than I disagree
>> completely with the rest of your response. First, the Qal stem is only
>> used of the creative activity of God in the OT. Second, the plural may
>> well be plural since Elohiym is plural. Third, the term is never used
>> in the Qal of human creations, which rules out the idea of forebears.
>> Fourth, immediate context from the previous verses suggests that this is
>> advice to a young person with respect to how he lives his life and the
>> fact that God will ultimately judge every action. Fifth, remembering
>> your forbears has nothing to do with whether or not one grows old and
>> enjoys life, Solomon has already stated repeatedly in this book that
>> real life comes from God. Eccles. 2:25-26, 5:18-20, 7:14, 9:1,9
>>
>> Lastly, while you may not feel the need to consult other translations,
>> when you digress dramatically from the orthodox understanding of a
>> verse, the burden of proof is on you to document your assertions. One
>> cannot merely say that the word means something and expect others to
>> simply accept it without proof. Since this term only appears in the Qal
>> partciple plural one time, proof is probably not available.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>>
>> Ron Snider,
>> Pastor-teacher
>>
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>
>
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