[b-hebrew] Gen. 2:16-17 :: idiom or clumsy lie
kwrandolph at gmail.com
Wed Dec 6 13:02:03 EST 2006
You are using your theories of etymology based on form to assign
definitions of words. I don't think that is right. I think the correct
way is to look up the words in their actual uses, their function, and
speculate about common origin only if the functions show a commonality
I also don't buy into the belief that the ancients did not have a good
sense of the abstract as well as the concrete, therefore if a term
indicates an understanding of abstract concepts, I do not speculate
concrete basis for those abstractions.
After all, words can converge in form which originally were considered
very different, as well as be loan words from other languages. In
those cases, a speculated common origin can lead you astray as to how
the ancients actually understood their meanings. Even on words that
are not convergent nor loan words, you lack a paper trail showing a
commonality of origin.
In short, using a concordance and looking up all the actual uses of
words below, I don't see the meanings you assign to terms.
Karl W. Randolph.
On 12/5/06, Isaac Fried <if at math.bu.edu> wrote:
> Notice that there are three instances of BR): (1) 'to create', as in
> Gen 1,1; (2) 'to shred' , as in Ez 23,47; and (3) 'to be large, to be
> great', from which BARI), as in Gen 41,2, is derived.
> The root BRH means 'to eat=to devour=to tear and shred food', either
> in the mouth or in the pot. Compare: "to break bread".
> The root PRH means 'to bring forth or create offsprings, to spread
> out'. It is related to the roots: PRX, PRQ, PRQ etc.
> The root PR( means 'to ruffle, to be unruly, to be disorderly, to be
> fractious, to be wild'.
> The root PR) means 'to be wild' or to be in the state PR( .
> To my utter chagrin I am intellectually unfit to enter into a deep
> discussion as to what 'create' means, or what it means to turn
> "nothing=no+thing" into "something=some+thing".
> Isaac Fried
> On Dec 5, 2006, at 11:10 AM, K Randolph wrote:
> > When looking at the meanings of the words, as they are actually used
> > in Tanakh, that case is hard to sustain.
> > On 12/4/06, Isaac Fried <if at math.bu.edu> wrote:
> >> Inasmuch as we are dealing with Genesis, it is worth while noticing
> >> that ברא, BARA, which is rendered in English: 'create', and which
> >> is the first verb (root) of the entire bible, is a variant of פרע
> >> PARA, 'disperse'. There is nothing in this verb (root) to indicate
> >> that God made "something" out of "nothing".
> >> Other relatives of ברא are ברה, פרא, פרה.
> >> Isaac Fried
> > ברא, BR) means to create, set up, though not every time something
> > from
> > nothing (the context, e.g. Genesis 1:1–2, gives us the something out
> > of nothing).
> > ברה, BRH means to be fed, other than similar sound, very
> > different meaning.
> > פרא, PR) is a happax whose meaning is uncertain Hosea 8:9, the noun
> > refers to a wild donkey that lives in the desert. This could actually
> > be the noun referring to the action.
> > פרה, PRH to produce fruit, i.e. be fruitful.
> > פרע, PR( to loosen, as in to set free from restraint.
> > Just because words sound similar does not mean that they originally
> > came from the same root.
> > Karl W. Randolph.
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