[b-hebrew] Isaiah 53: in his death?
Lisbeth S. Fried
lizfried at umich.edu
Sun May 23 11:47:03 EDT 2004
We'll agree to disagree.
As for judges, read my article which I mentioned,
read my book due out this summer from Eisenbrauns.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Karl Randolph
> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 5:59 PM
> To: Hebrew
> Subject: RE: [b-hebrew] Isaiah 53: in his death?
> Where do you get this kvatsch that
> Isaiah 53 was during the Persian period?
> The Persian period didnt begin until
> well after a century later!
> Before you flame, I deliberately
> overstated the above to make a point.
> Yours is a theological position (some
> call it a philosophical belief) that not all on this mailing
> list subscribe to.
> Therefore, I find your confident
> assertions to be a little out of place.
> Yes, we all understand this passage
> according to our preconceptions. But here our preconceptions
> are driving how we see even Biblical Hebrew grammar and lexemes.
> I see a place for your claims if you were to show directly
> how it affects your understanding of Biblical Hebrew, but are
> you doing that?
> I suspect that you would agree with Peter Kirk that the
> present is the key to the past, i.e. that present processes
> are the same as have happened in _all_ of the past.
> Therefore, because telling the future is something that is
> not happening today, past records purporting to be telling
> the future had to have been written after the fulfillment.
> Those who dont agree with your theology find your posts a
> bit tiring at best, absurd at worst. Except where they
> directly affect understanding Biblical Hebrew language,
> should they be on this list at all?
> On another issue, I wouldnt put too much stock in the term
> messiah. King Saul was one, so was David. There wasnt much
> of an issue made of it, but Solomon was one too. Therefore in
> Isaiah 45 where Isaiah writes that God anointed Cyrus, that
> should not be that much of an issue.
> As for the judges, I suspect you are
> reading more into their identities than can be historically
> verified. Those who would be appointed were most likely upper
> level judges, not one for every little township. As long as a
> people did not rise up in rebellion against Persian rule
> (there is no record that I know of that Judea did so) there
> would be no reason for Persian judges appointed to that land
> or people. The evidence I see is that Judea continued to be
> ruled by Jewish law, the same for Jews living in the Diaspora
> in Jewish enclaves, until the Roman period.
> Yours, Karl W. Randolph.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lisbeth S. Fried" <lizfried at umich.edu>
I'm talking about the
> > Persian period, which is the period of Isaiah 53. During
> the Persian
> >period there were royal judges in Egypt which were appointed by the
> >Persian king (or his agent) in Susa.
I only stick in my article on Cyrus the Messiah.
> > I think it is worthwhile to remember tho that it is Cyrus
> who is the
> > Messiah in the book of Isaiah, not the servant.
> > Everyone conveniently forgets that in their effor to see
> Jesus as the
> > servant. That is what happens when passages are read out of the
> > context of the entire book. The key to the book is to remember that
> > Cyrus is the Messiah, no one else is called that in the
> entire book.
> > Cyrus is the Messiah because he fulfills the Messianic role : he
> > rebulds the temple and returns the Jews to their land.
> > Best,
> > Liz
> > Lisbeth S. Fried, Ph. D.
> > Visiting Scholar
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