Theodore H Mann
thmann at juno.com
Wed Dec 27 08:12:27 EST 2000
Does TOUTO GAR CARIS EI... (1 Pet. 2:19) qualify as an idiom? It is
translated "For this is commendable... "
Dr. Theodore "Ted" H. Mann
thmann at juno.com
On Tue, 26 Dec 2000 22:46:27 -0700 "Wayne Leman" <wleman at mcn.net> writes:
> Phil responded:
> > > She has a green thumb.
> > > He kicked the bucket.
> > > Your eyes are bigger than your stomach.
> > As you rightly explain, these are more "figures of speech" that
> Sorry, Phil, I didn't communicate clearly enuf: the above 3 English
> sentences are precisely examples with English idioms. They are not
> other figures of speech. My struggle has been trying to determine
> some specific example in NT Greek is a true idiom or some other
> figure of
> speech, such as euphemism, metonymy, etc.
> >but my question/comment
> > may head off in another direction. Can you distinguish between a
> of Speech and Euphemistic
> > language?
> Euphemism is one class of figures of speech. Figures of speech is
> the larger
> set of which euphemisms are subset.
> > An example might be the use of "he is asleep" for "he is dead."
> It seems
> to me that
> > these sorts of things cannot be translated as strict literal
> Exactly. Very few languages, including English, use that original
> Semiticism, which, unfortunately, has been preserved in many English
> versions. It is not an accurate translation of the original meaning
> of the
> Greek text. Accurate translation calls for preserving the original
> and making sure that if the original text was figurative that that
> figurative meaning has been expressed accurately in the translation
> so that the readers of the translation understand its original
> meaning. We
> can field test with users of translations to determine if they
> "fall asleep" to mean "to die." Of course, I think most of us on
> this list
> already know what the answer would be before we field test.
> > Two situations may arise. There may be some cultures that do not
> understand sleep = dead, so their
> > own cultural Figure of Speech (idiom) must be used.
> > A second problem is when a literal phrase is
> > offensive in a culture and it usually "idiomized," referred to in
> a FoS.
> Specifically, a euphemism, which is what "fall asleep" is in NT
> (borrowed from Hebraic usage).
> > The translator has to be
> > aware of how the biblical FoS comes across in English, and must
> choose to
> translate more or less
> > literally.
> Correct, depending on whether users of the translation accurately
> the original meaning from the translation wordings we use. We can
> their understanding by asking them, the scientific process of field
> > The Hebrew Bible is especially full of colorful language that is
> lost in
> > and rightly so.
> But it is interesting to footnote it because it is so colorful,
> earthy, and lively. Figures of speech enliven language all
> throughout the
> world. We just need to be sure we translate them properly into other
> languages so their figurative meaning is understood accurately. A
> amount of the NT is written in figurative language and with
> devices such as irony and hyperbole, so that we can easily miss the
> originally intended message if we simply translate the words.
> Wayne Leman
> Bible translation website:
> Bible translation discussion list:
> bible-translation-subscribe at kastanet.org
> _____NetZero Free Internet Access and Email______
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [thmann at juno.com]
> To unsubscribe, forward this message to
> To subscribe, send a message to
> subscribe-b-greek at franklin.oit.unc.edu
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
More information about the B-Greek