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From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] hierarchies and networks
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=0AThere are many more positive examples of network successes. The book Ble=
ssed Unrest gives examples. YES Magazine gives many inspiring examples of g=
rass roots networks prevailing over centralized monopolies to some degree o=
r another (for instance, recent indigenous group triumphs). Transition Town=
, Slow Food, City Repair, the organic food movement, etc. The Civil Rights =
movements, while having strong leadership in many areas, never would have b=
een successful without the grass roots networks. I am seeing success at gra=
ss roots level in my "backwoods" town. =0A=0AThere is another element here.=
Both networks and hierarchies can operate on a mob, reactive mentality (ma=
nipulated by a corrupt leader such as Hitler, or operating on lower impulse=
s, such as a spontaneous lynching), or on a conscious mentality (where purp=
oses and actions are clearly defined and observed to be constructive, regen=
erative, healing, etc). The level of consciousness (and the ability to man=
ifest it) of the leadership and the clarity of the purposes of the network =
may have a lot to do with determining its "success" (defined as moving forw=
ard regenerative design). I do feel the grass roots consciousness movement =
is impinging in perhaps yet unseen ways. =0A=0AThere are times in history w=
here circumstances are right for a great cultural flowering, just as system=
s "take off" when soils are right (as Toby so nicely describes in his book)=
. It can do no harm to continue to care for and feed the soils of our cultu=
re as well as our own....=0A=0ABest, Cory=0A=0A--- On Mon, 11/1/10, Holger =
Hieronimi <holger@tierramor.org> wrote:=0A=0A> From: Holger Hieronimi <holg=
er@tierramor.org>=0A> Subject: Re: [permaculture] hierarchies and networks=
=0A> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>=0A> Date: Monday, =
November 1, 2010, 5:47 AM=0A> Interesting & important topic=0A> =0A> Feel f=
amiliar with your musings... I have gone all the way=0A> from =0A> defendin=
g networked, consensus-based, "leaderless"=A0=0A> stuctures to also =0A> (a=
t least sometimes) apreciate hirarchies, and more=0A> centrally structured =
=0A> (decision making) organisms...,=0A> =0A> who was the college who said =
"The opposite is also true"=0A> ???=0A> Its one of my favotite mantras rece=
ntly=0A> =0A> but the examples (PLO, German RAF, or Al Qaeda) aren=B4t=0A> =
really that =0A> motivating...=0A> =0A> of course we have to find balance-=
=0A> and the networked structures simply have more resilience in=0A> an ene=
rgy =0A> descent future=0A> we will hate them, but with less energy we have=
to work=0A> with them=0A> good that we have some practical experiences fro=
m our=0A> activist times...=0A> =0A> nevertheless, I=B4m surprised, because=
the more networks=0A> seem inevitable, =0A> the more people in "mainstream=
societies" are crying for=0A> "strong =0A> leadership"... of course, the o=
pposite will happen, because=0A> central =0A> control needs energy...=0A> =
=0A> and we permaculture dissitents are talking about the=0A> advantages of=
those =0A> structures, that we ignored ore rejected for a long time=0A> =
=0A> interesting...another topic for a filosofical debate...=0A> =0A> regar=
ds from Mexico=0A> =0A> holger=0A> =0A> =0A> El 01.11.2010 05:30, permacult=
ure-request@lists.ibiblio.org=0A> escribi=F3:=0A> > Asunto:=0A> > [permacul=
ture] hierarchies and networks=0A> > De:=0A> > Toby Hemenway <toby@patternl=
iteracy.com>=0A> > Fecha:=0A> > Sun, 31 Oct 2010 14:54:09 -0700=0A> >=0A> >=
Para:=0A> > permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>=0A> >=0A> >=0A> =
> One subject we touched on in the recent certification=0A> thread was new =
and old tools for change, and the difference=0A> between hierarchical and d=
ecentralized organizations and=0A> tools. I'd said that I once had high hop=
es for decentralized=0A> leadership tools, like consensus, but was disappoi=
nted by=0A> how rarely they live up to their promise. I've been=0A> skeptic=
al of the value of these and similar methods to=0A> actually produce change=
, and have found the older=0A> tools--strong leadership, old-style voting--=
at least as=0A> effective (though I still prefer inclusive versions of thes=
e=0A> tools to exclusive).=0A> >=0A> > I was catching up on a stack of New =
Yorker magazines=0A> this morning, and in the Oct 4 issue there's an articl=
e that=0A> fits right in to this conversation, "Small Change" by=0A> Malcol=
m Gladwell. Gladwell is known for his book "The=0A> Tipping Point" and in g=
eneral being a whole systems thinker.=0A> He's made the points I would have=
liked to have made. I was=0A> intrigued that he feels network tools aren't=
good for doing=0A> design, and that they are better at preserving the stat=
us=0A> quo than changing it. So here's a quote from the article.=0A> >=0A> =
> "Unlike hierarchies, with their rules and procedures,=0A> networks aren't=
controlled by a single central authority.=0A> Decisions are made through c=
onsensus, and the ties that bind=0A> people to the group are loose. This st=
ructure makes networks=0A> enormously resilient and adaptable in low-risk s=
ituations.=0A> Wikipedia is a perfect example. . . .=0A> >=0A> > "There are=
many things, though, that networks don't do=0A> well. Car companies sensib=
ly use a network to organize their=0A> hundreds of suppliers, but not to de=
sign their cars. No one=0A> believes that the articulation of a coherent de=
sign=0A> philosophy is best handled by a sprawling, leaderless=0A> organiza=
tional system. Because networks don't have a=0A> centralized leadership str=
ucture and clear lines of=0A> authority, they have real difficulty reaching=
consensus and=0A> setting goals. They can't think strategically; they are=
=0A> chronically prone to conflict and error. How do you make=0A> difficult=
choices about tactics or strategy or philosophical=0A> direction when ever=
yone has an equal say?=0A> >=0A> > "The Palestine Liberation Organization o=
riginated as a=0A> network, and the international-relations scholars Mette=
=0A> Eilstrup-Sangiovanni and Calvert Jones argue in a recent=0A> essay in =
International Security that this is why it ran into=0A> such trouble as it =
grew: "Structural features typical of=0A> networks---the absence of central=
authority, the unchecked=0A> autonomy of rival groups, and the inability t=
o arbitrate=0A> quarrels through formal mechanisms---made the P.L.O.=0A> ex=
cessively vulnerable to outside manipulation and internal=0A> strife."=0A> =
>=0A> > "In Germany in the nineteen-seventies, they go on,=0A> "the far mor=
e unified and successful left-wing terrorists=0A> tended to organize hierar=
chically, with professional=0A> management and clear divisions of labor."=
=A0 . . . They=0A> seldom betrayed their comrades in arms during police=0A>=
interrogations. Their counterparts on the right were=0A> organized as dece=
ntralized networks, and had no such=0A> discipline. These groups were regul=
arly infiltrated, and=0A> members, once arrested, easily gave up their comr=
ades.=0A> Similarly, Al Qaeda was most dangerous when it was a unified=0A> =
hierarchy. Now that it has dissipated into a network, it has=0A> proved far=
less effective.=0A> >=0A> > "The drawbacks of networks scarcely matter if =
the=0A> network isn't interested in systemic change---if it just=0A> wants =
to frighten or humiliate or make a splash---or if it=0A> doesn't need to th=
ink strategically. But if you're taking on=0A> a powerful and organized est=
ablishment you have to be a=0A> hierarchy . . . .=0A> >=0A> > "But [network=
-based activism] is simply a form of=0A> organizing which favors the weak-t=
ie connections that give=0A> us access to information over the strong-tie c=
onnections=0A> that help us persevere in the face of danger. It shifts our=
=0A> energies from organizations that promote strategic and=0A> disciplined=
activity and toward those which promote=0A> resilience and adaptability. I=
t makes it easier for=0A> activists to express themselves, and harder for t=
hat=0A> expression to have any impact. The instruments of social=0A> media =
are well suited to making the existing social order=0A> more efficient. The=
y are not a natural enemy of the status=0A> quo. If you are of the opinion =
that all the world needs is a=0A> little buffing around the edges, this sho=
uld not trouble=0A> you. But if you think that there are still lunch counte=
rs=0A> out there that need integrating [Gladwell mentioned civil=0A> rights=
activists] it ought to give you pause."=0A> >=0A> > The full article is at=
=0A> > http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/10/04/101004fa_fact_gladwell=
?currentPage=3Dall=0A> >=0A> > Toby=0A> > http://patternliteracy.com=0A> >=
=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=A0 =A0 =0A> =0A> -----Inline Attachment Follows---=
--=0A> =0A> _______________________________________________=0A> permacultur=
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e, change your user configuration=0A> here:=0A> http://lists.ibiblio.org/ma=
ilman/listinfo/permaculture=0A> Read the public message archives here:=0A> = https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture=0A> Command to put in your =
browser's Google search box to=0A> search these archives:=0A> site:lists.ib=
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Re: [permaculture] Moles, Voles and Gophers and deers,
chauncey williams, 11/01/2010