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Today's Topics:
1. Re: need P and K glutton (Paul Wheaton)
2. Re: Re: Re: Succession (Toby Hemenway)
3. Re: PDC, course format (Toby Hemenway)
4. where on Earth is the most permaculture happening? (Forest Garden)
5. Re: permie politics (Graham Burnett)
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Subject:
Re: [permaculture] need P and K glutton
From:
Paul Wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
Date:
Wed, 9 Mar 2005 09:07:44 -0800 (PST)
To:
Benneth Phelps <bphelps2@lycos.com>, permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
To:
Benneth Phelps <bphelps2@lycos.com>, permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
A first question: are you inoculating your legumes?
Yes.
I'm no expert, but I would think
this is crucial for your situation. Is your soil "alive", in good health with
lots of
worms and microorganisms?
Not particularly. This is something I'm trying to fix.
Your plants won't be able to access the nutrients they need
if it isn't. How low is your "low" Nitrogen?
Near or at zero.
In my north pasture: 5ppm or 9 pounds per acre.
old orchard: 11 ppm
new orchard: 4 ppm
How high is your "high" phosphorus?
pasture: 53ppm weak bray, 95ppm strong bray
old orchard: 151/196
new orchard: 81/130
What's your pH?
pasture: 5.8, 6.8 buffer index
old orchard: 6.1/6.8
new orchard: 6.5/7.0
What's your organic matter?
pasture: 2.5%
old orchard: 3.4%
new orchard: 1.7%
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Subject:
Re: [permaculture] Re: Re: Succession
From:
Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
Date:
Wed, 09 Mar 2005 09:42:08 -0800
To:
permaculture list <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
To:
permaculture list <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
On 3/7/05 8:59 PM, "Michael Kramer" <MKramer@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:
in this country these rules[snip]
are not recognized by many people,
And at this point I'm not sure we should insist on
maintaining a nonexistent standard simply because some of us are very
comfortable teaching it.
I've been on board with most of what Michael has been saying but here I'llScott P. writes:
disagree. I've taught with a lot of people, and everyone I've worked with
feels a strong obligation to adhere to Mollison's format as laid down in the
old Pc handbook; most teachers' curricula cover a nearly identical group of
subjects. The principal exception I know of is Penny Livingston's Earth
Activist Training done with Starhawk, which some students have commented
gives Pc short shrift to make room for activist training and Earth
spirituality. But in general Mollison's guidelines are adhered to pretty
strictly in the US. I maintain the PDC standard because I find it effective
at introducing a particular set of people to the ideas of Pc. I am
definitely not "comfortable" with it; I hate zooming through so many
subjects so quickly.
Where I think Michael is spot on is:Here I have to disagree, partly because I think it is an inaccurate and cynical description of what the focus of the course is, and of
my primary point is that we have a design
course that would definitely not work for the Navy or a corporation or a
local government or a school,
The PDC as configured now appeals to activists, back-to-the-landers,
gardeners, and a few other limited groups. It's laughable to think that
businesses, architects, government, developers, or most of the people who
wield power and make decisions that affect most resource use in the world,
would be interested in a course that focuses on tree crops, herb spirals,
and mud buildings. And those are people we need to influence. So in this
sense I do agree that permaculturists need to find ways of presenting the
ideas of Pc without focusing so heavily on food production. Yes, we know
that permanent agriculture is a key to sustainability, but when farming in
the US is done by less than 2% of the population, a course that expresses
many of its ideas through agriculture is not going to appeal to many. So the
challenge is to offer permaculture courses that introduce the basic ideas in
other ways than by garden imagery.
Toby
www.patternliteracy.com
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