fair enough, but in the UK at least the permaculturists seem to be much more about building sustainable communities and setting up social systems so that all can enjoy abundance, good living and fulfilled lives whilst living in harmony with the planet. However surivival skills are also imporatnt, I just tend to feeel rather uncomfortable with the 'rugged individualist, every man for himself' philosophy, maybe its that difference between 'self sufficiency' and 'self reliance'
Mike Elvin
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