Thanks for the welcome back! I remember most all of you, although there are
several new, which is to be expected, after all these years!!
I am able to read *some* of the lists e-mail, and like you, Lisa, I too learn
alot. Say, what ever happened to James? He, TVO, and you too GENE, were
always very informative and interesting- along with you Bev and Lisa. I
always loved gleaning all I could about mortgage information. (Lisa) Oh and
then there's Rob in WA State. Is Don still around?
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:17 AM
Subject: Homestead Digest, Vol 44, Issue 15
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Homestead digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Certified Humane- Was Selling lambs (Robert Walton)
2. Re: Tvo (Robert Walton)
3. Tvo (Linda EMTER)
4. Re: Selling lambs for meat (Lynda)
5. Re: Tvo (Gene GeRue)
6. Pacifism (Gene GeRue)
7. Public school politics (Gene GeRue)
8. Re: Tvo (Lisa K.V. Perry)
9. Re: Public school politics
(paxamicus AT earthlink.net<mailto:paxamicus AT earthlink.net>)
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 23:34:33 -0500
From: "Robert Walton" <waltonrp AT gmail.com<mailto:waltonrp AT gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Certified Humane- Was Selling lambs
To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org<mailto:homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
> toward pacifism,
> one of the few subjects on which Tvo and I disagreed. I wish I then
> had this quote to offer for his consideration: "I am not only a
> pacifist but a militant pacifist. I am willing to fight for
> peace. . . . Is it not better for a man to die for a cause in which he
> believes, such as peace, than to suffer for a cause in which he does
> not believe, such as war?"
> --Albert Einstein
If one fights for peace, then on cannot be a pacifist, by definition:
pacifism
Main Entry: pac?i?fism
Pronunciation: \?pa-s?-?fi-z?m\
Function: noun
Etymology: French pacifisme, from pacifique pacific
Date: 1902
1: opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes;
specifically : refusal to bear arms on moral or religious grounds
2: an attitude or policy of nonresistance
> My kids used to ask me if he was for real. If I met someone like
> him today on the web, I would think they are full of sh*t and a liar. I
> am glad I "met" him in the mid '90's mid '90's when I was less suspicious
of people.
Ditto on that. Sometimes I thought he was so full of it, his posts
sometimes so over answered the question. I finally decided that he
just had a lot of information and an obession to share it. I'm glad he
did. I can only hope that I live so long and have answers like his
when I'm that age.
I haven't written to the list since TVO passed away. It makes me happy to
be thinking of him again. (gene; Lisa) He was a very special person, he was.
Intelligent doesn't seem the right word for him. I'll have to give it some
thought. The year that TVO passed, was the same year that my husband took his
life. He was a brilliant man too----maybe too brilliant. He couldn't stand
living on this war torn earth any longer. He was only 52, but he & Tvo has a
lot in common.
Thanks for writing about Tvo once again.
Linda in Ridgefield, WA
Empty-handed I entered the world
Barefoot I leave it.
My coming, my going ~~
Two simple happenings
That got entangled.
Kozan Ichigyo - Zen Monk
What breed do you have? We've looked at Soay, but I'm kinda worried that
they might be too small with the local coyote problem. So we're also
looking at Icelandic.
> I''ve tried out many farm animals here, and the only ones that come
> close to getting along with no feed are the sheep. I went away for 3
> months this winter. Even though my caretaker only brought my 5
> miniature sheep one flake of hay each week, they got along just great
> with their bowl of salt and 1 2/3 acres of grass.
>
> I especially came to appreciate them when one newly acquired "lamb" gave
> birth. What a boon to think they can get along all by themselves like
> that! There's no wonder that people have kept them throught the ages.
> Now we're looking for a miniature ram.
>
> Yesterday I opened up the gate into the garden, so they could graze the
> grass between the beds. The last of the Brassicas have been removed,
> and there are no tall favas yet, so how much can they harm a few leek
> tops and old celery plants, I figure.
> When Tvo was alive, he would always amaze me with his stories and
> rather
> casual mention of various things and events in his life. To hear the
> man talk, you would think he was 150 years old as it would seem that
> it
> would take 150 years to live as much as he had- in as many places as
> he
> had. My kids used to ask me if he was for real. If I met someone like
> him today on the web, I would think they are full of sh*t and a
> liar. I
> am glad I "met" him in the mid '90's when I was less suspicious of
> people. Even after his death, I often wondered of the how's in his
> life...His obit provides a few clues.
I got on Google Earth and found his home town. It is in the county
just east of where I was born and spent my first fifteen years.
I never questioned any of his exploits. You will recall that for his
amusement I searched the MLS records here in Phoenix and found the
subdivision that he and a partner built and that still carries his
name. I drove the neighborhood. Small, modest homes for young families.
Hetrick, is that the right spelling, went over and met him when we
collected bucks for his computer repairs. He said he was tall, white-
haired, courtly and gracious. Tvo was very touched by what we had
done. I think he would have contributed as much no matter what, but he
had an emotional connection to this list, as many of us had to him. He
remains my ideal for how geezers should inspire and help the young
with stories and useful information.
>> If one fights for peace, then on cannot be a pacifist, by definition:
Be free. Do not be confined by the old political definitions of
critical words in dusty books. Words are important to convey ideas and
avoid misunderstanding but they are also limiting. Pacifism is such a
word. I would use whatever means at my disposal to protect those close
to me but I am against using war to resolve differences and dictate
sovereign behavior. War is an admission of our failures.
I never said it to him out of respect, but I think that warriors, and
Tvo qualifies, must fix in their minds the rightness of their cause as
sufficient and strong justification to kill the children on the other
end of the battle field and that is why he and I had a different
perspective. Unnecessarily but purposefully killing another human, no
matter how heinous their behavior, sets back our quest to
civilization, it reduces our humanity and coarsens our soul. The
psychological manifestations of returning soldiers tell the story.
Yet more proof of the political abuse of public education:
"Hunting is on the decline across the nation as participation has
fallen over the last three decades, and states have begun trying to
bolster this rural tradition by attracting new and younger people to
the sport.
"In West Virginia, state lawmakers gave final approval on Friday to a
bill that allows hunting education classes in all schools where at
least 20 students express interest. The goal is to reverse a 20
percent drop in hunting permits purchased over the last decade, which
has caused a loss of more than $1.5 million in state revenue over that
period. At least six other states are considering similar
legislation. . . ."
"Parents who lack teaching credentials cannot educate their children
at home, according to a state appellate court ruling that is sending
waves of fear through California's home schooling families. . . ."
> I haven't written to the list since TVO passed away. It makes me happy to
> be thinking of him again. (gene; Lisa) He was a very special person, he
was.
> Intelligent doesn't seem the right word for him. I'll have to give it some
> thought. The year that TVO passed, was the same year that my husband took
> his life. He was a brilliant man too----maybe too brilliant. He couldn't
> stand living on this war torn earth any longer. He was only 52, but he &
Tvo
> has a lot in common.
Linda, welcome back to the list.
I don't post much myself, but once in a while I say something. I'm not a
homesteader but I learn and listen a great deal.
What bothers me about this isn't that the State of West Virginia wants
to teach it's kids to hunt. I have spent enough time in West virginia
that I understand that hunting is something that is pretty basic to
the fundamentals to the people who have lived here a long time.
I would not suggest that it isn't right for the people of WV to decide
to inculcate that tradition in their kids. They have the right to
decide that for themselves.
In fact, to suggest they shouldn't, to me, is like the White Man
deciding Native kids should be put in white-run schools.
No, what bothers me about this is that it, like almost everything
else, was probably NOT arrived at in a fair, balanced, even handed
way, given our legislative systems.
I get angry when I hear politicians talk about their viewpoints. They
aren't supposed to have any. They are supposed to be the live body
casting the vote that's indicative OF THE WILL OF THEIR PEOPLE.
How did that get lost?
If you want to preach localism, with enough variety and specialties to
encourage small, independent trade again, you've got to let the Inuits
kill their seals and the WV to kill their too populous deer
and those crazy people up their in the great White North crouching in
the snowy dark mating fungus with milk to make fabulous cheese.
It's all good.
But included in this has to be the freedom to opt out if the will of
the majority is not your thing. I opted Maeve out of the birth control
chapter in her public school sex-ed course because it was abstinence,
only. WTF?
My kid is going to have every option at her disposal to stay safe and
healthy, not some crazy religionist's idea of what's ok for her.
The California thing, I understand, is a closer look at a law already
on the books. It was an effort made to handle a situation where
someone felt the children were actually in danger, so they pulled
this out of their hats to get the kids somewhere safe. The point is,
the law was already on the books. And again, I can see both sides of
this equation. I understand the community having a vested interest in
seeing all
kids are being educated to a certain level. It should be left up to
the parents to find the way to get the kids there. I just can't
imagine this is really going to undermine the homeschool movement in
California, of all places.
I think it's sort of a tempest in a teapot.
Cheers
On Mar 8, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Gene GeRue wrote:
> Yet more proof of the political abuse of public education:
>
> "Hunting is on the decline across the nation as participation has
> fallen over the last three decades, and states have begun trying to
> bolster this rural tradition by attracting new and younger people to
> the sport.
>
> "In West Virginia, state lawmakers gave final approval on Friday to a
> bill that allows hunting education classes in all schools where at
> least 20 students express interest. The goal is to reverse a 20
> percent drop in hunting permits purchased over the last decade, which
> has caused a loss of more than $1.5 million in state revenue over that
> period. At least six other states are considering similar
> legislation. . . ."
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/us/08hunting.html<http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/08/us/08hunting.html>?