I disagree, I do not think that it is racist to believe that Torah
existed before Creation, that it was G-d's blueprint for creating the
world and that therefore it contains all knowledge of past present
and future in it, That G-d used the Hebrew letters as tools for the
Creation of the world, that the original Torah existed without word
breaks, but that Moshe was given one particular version with the word
breaks that have been handed down to us, that the Torah pre-existed
every other language, including Arabic, that everything one wants to
know about Torah (and about more than Torah as well) is CONTAINED in
the Torah, and that therefore there is no need to look elsewhere for
explanations of Torah, even where our understanding seems to be
lacking at first, that only a fraction of this information is
contained in the words themselves, and the rest in infinitely deeper
and deeper layers within.
I do not believe this position is an insult to anyone. It certainly
is not racist, and does not need an apology.
Shoshanna
Hi Shoshanna,
I didn't address you directly when I complained about the recent
racist behaviour recently displayed on this list as I didn't feel
it was my place to do so and so humbly requested the moderators to
step in before things got any worse.
But for the record, I didn't find your insistence of using the
term 'Isreal' over 'Palestine' all that racist or
offensive. You were just warming up when you made that remark. Where
you overstepped the limit, in my opinion (which may be wrong), was
were you insisted that evidence from Arabic language was inadmissable
and made a direct statement about the Arabs which could cause high
levels of unnecessary offense to a large group of people. There is
not one person alive who could claim to have a 100% knowledge of the
truth from Yhwh and while some are closer to that destination than
others we are all on that journey at our own pace whether we be Jews,
Christians or Muslims and the reason that most of us are on this list
is to help us keep on track on that journey as we explore the truth
revealed to us through the hebrew text.
Arabian people have a culture much in common with Toral traditions
and their language can reveal much about the Hebrew language and I
for one would feel honoured if Arabian scholars participated in
discussions in this list as their point of view could bring great
insights to the discussions we have on this list. However, as long as
comments of the nature I am referring to are allowed to happen on
this list I don't think that this is likely to ever happen
I hope you don't find my objections to such comments offensive.
You are free to have your opinions about whatever ethical group you
please. Just please don't propogate them on this list and make me
ashamed to be a member of it.
I asked a valid question, and you didn't answer it. It has nothing
to do with zeal for my beliefs, but with accuracy re talking in the
Torah's language, ie; Biblical Hebrew
So I'll re-phrase.
Why is opposition to using a name to designate the region described,
lauded, promised and coveted in the Torah, which was not used by the
Torah, considered politically incorrect? Why should it be used in
the first place on this list, which is supposed to be Torah based?
Surely everybody knows that the term was first used by the Romans,
thousands of years after the Torah was revealed in its present
written form, in this physical world. Why would it offend anyone,
that I object to using that term on this list???
I would not object if you used "C'naan", since G-d did.
As was requested, our political views should not be reflected in our
discussions, so I also am requesting that they (political views, ie,
as concerns the name of this region) should not be presented, but
just defer to Hashem's names for this land, (which He created) as
recorded in the Torah.
Shoshanna
Shoshanna, I for one appreciate and respect your zeal for your
beliefs, but you'll have to make some concessions if you want to interact
productively with a diverse community like B-Hebrew. The moderators are
simply trying to provide a forum where everyone can expect a respectful
hearing of their views, irrespective of who agrees or disagrees with them.
Don't take it personally.
G-d/the Torah doesn't use that term to denote this part of the earth,
why does it have to do with politics to object to using it? Why
should it be used in the first place when talking about Torah?
Shoshanna
Members of B-Hebrew are advised that racist or political remarks have
no place on B-Hebrew. This includes statements about the legitimacy of
modern polities, and claims of linguistic superiority.
It will be taken as read that innocuous references to 'Palestine' are
mere geographic labels which make no statement about current politics
in the Middle East. Members who insinuate more than this will be
reprimanded.
Everybody, take a deep breath, and calm down. Now let's get back to
discussing biblical Hebrew language and literature.
Best Regards,
GEORGE ATHAS
Fellow Chairman, B-Hebrew
Moore Theological College (Sydney)
1 King St, Newtown, NSW 2042, Australia
Ph: (+61 2) 9577 9774
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