To: "'Herman Meester'" <crazymulgogi AT gmail.com>, <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yahoshua/Yehosua
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:01:00 -0700
Hello Herman,
Thanks for the clarification. (I was already afraid that my name Rivka
wasnt a real first name of a Jewess of ancient times! :-) )
With regards to the names of Jews in ancient times, I wouldn't be surprised
if there were several people with the same name (Yose, the example you gave)
so there was a need in distinguishing them by adding their father's name, or
their occupation, or their place of residence, etc. but this was not done
consistently.
Indeed, Ashekenazi Jews seem to like giving Hebrew name and its meaning in
Yiddish, especially to boys (girls sometimes ended up with Yiddish names
only and some today think these are to be used as their Hebrew names).
Another custom was to use the name and a symbol related to it when using the
names of Yaakovs sons: Yahudah Arieh (lion being the symbol of the Tribe
of Yehudah), Naftali Tzvi (for the gazelle thats the symbol or Naftali),
Binyamin Zeev (like Herzls Hebrew name) because Benyamins tribal symbol
is a wulf, and sometimes they used one name in Hebrew and one in Yiddish
(Binyamin Wulf, etc.). Very interesting topic!
Kol tuv,
Rivka
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-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Herman Meester
Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 2:38 PM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Yahoshua/Yehosua
Dear Rivka,
I'm sorry, I think I have expressed myself wrongly. What I did mean
was, for example, one's "first name" could be "Ted", but his
"official" name is Theodore, and maybe even a few extra names given at
baptism. I think such a thing did not exist in Hellenistic period
Judaism. For example, the characters of the Mishna have names such as
Yose bar Chananya, but if they are distinguished enough, the "son
of.." part isn't needed: they would be just "rabbi Yose", i.e. "THE
rabbi Yose", rabbi Meir, etc. Later on, the amount of last names
grows, and yet later, we find more than one first name for one
individual - which may or not be a Christian/Islamic influence on
Jewish practice.
I hope I have now removed the suspicion that I think Jews didn't have
first names; I think actually they usually had *only* first names, and
"son of..." or "daughter of..." (+father's name), if needed.
BTW "Jewish names" is a very interesting subject in itself; take for
example (I may mention something that's no news to you, but maybe it
could be interesting to mention) a Yiddish Ashkenazi practice of
giving a person two first names, or rather one double first name, with
the same meaning, but one in Hebrew and one in Yiddish. For example,
Tsvi Hirsch, Dov Bär, Seev Wolf (+last name), and others.
Best regards,
Herman,
R.dam Netherlands
2006/4/4, YODAN <yodanco AT yodanco.com>:
> Hello Herman,
>
> I am not sure that I understand the statement "Unlike Christians nowadays,
> Jews in
>
> Antiquity didn't have "official" names, as far as I think is known at
>
> least,."
>
> Since the name being discussed was a first name, are you saying Jews
didn't
> have first names? Or didn't have them even as "late" in history as the
> beginning of the Common Era? How can that be? What about all the
Biblical
> names that preceded the period you are discussing by hundreds of years?