On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:33:05 +0100 "Read, James C"
<K0434995 AT kingston.ac.uk> writes:
> Exodus 5:1 is a very interesting verse. It says that 'they' went in
> to Pharoah and said.
>
> It is easy to see by the 3mp suffix that they both went in. But who
> did the talking? Moses? Aaron? or both?
> If we are to use the implied subject alone we would conclude that
> both did the talking. But does that agree
> with the context of the larger story at hand?
>
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_______________________________________________
I would guess that the verb means exactly what it says, viz. "THEY said .
. ." This is understandable if we back up to 4.10, 14, 15 where it says
george
gfsomsel
___________
>From kwrandolph AT email.com Thu Aug 11 09:37:20 2005
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From: "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 08:37:19 -0500
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Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] euphamism, was 2Sam24:1 subjects
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George:
It is not that I oppose the idea of euphemisms for what we=20
also have euphemisms in English, rather I questioned how the=20
use of "feet" is such a euphemism.
In your verses listed below, there is not one that clearly=20
shows such a euphemism existed in B-Hebrew. The last two are=20
not in the text, just in later Qere. I tend to be very=20
suspicious of Qeres that are there for reasons other than=20
correcting obvious copiest errors. Even as a Qere, it is not=20
obvious as such a euphemism, for it could refer to the fluid
that ends up on one's feet.
Of the other verses, angels are described elsewhere as=20
sexless creatures, hence wouldn't have private parts to=20
cover. "Covering one's feet" is precisely the opposite,=20
uncovering privates so that relief is possible. I was taught=20
that RGL, though it emphasized the feet, also included the=20
legs. so that "shaving the hair of the legs" does not=20
necessarily refer to pubic hair.=20
So where is the evidence of such a euphemism? The verse in=20
Exodus has no need for such.
Karl W. Randolph.
----- Original Message -----
From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
>=20
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 10:43:00 -0500 "Karl Randolph" <kwrandolph AT email.com>
> writes:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel AT juno.com>
> > > ...
> > > ______________
> > > ...
> > > > As regards the touching of the "feet" with the foreskin, it is enti=
rely
> > > possible that this is actually a reference to touching Moses' private=
s.
> > > Such euphemisms are not uncommon (see the book of Ruth where she unco=
vers
> > > Boaz' "feet").
> > > > Why would Z know that the act of circumcision (and its symbolic
> > > transference to Moses by touching his "feet" with the foreskin)? We =
are
> > > not told. It would probably be a matter of "common knowledge" at the
> > > time.
> > > > george
> > > gfsomsel
> >
> > George, where do you get this euphemism?
> >
> > In the case with Ruth and Boaz, Boaz was sleeping outdoors.=20
> > Outdoors nights are often cool, so it is hard to believe that=20
> > Boaz did not cover himself, feet included, with a cloak or=20
> > blanket brought along for that very purpose. Notice, Naomi=20
> > expected that Boaz would be sleeping next to the threshing floor,=20
> > so this was planned for, not spontaneous as a drunken stupor. So=20
> > from the text, there is no justification from the text for such=20
> > an euphemism.
> >
> > Karl W. Randolph.
> ___________________________________________________________
>=20
> Karl,
>=20
> Cf. Dt. 25.11
>=20
> K.iY_YiN.fCW. ):aNf$iYM YaX:D.fW )iY$ W:)fXiYW W:Q:aR:BfH )"$eT Hf)eXfD
> L:HaC.iYL )eT_)iY$.fH. MiY.aD MaC."HW. W:$fL:XfH YfDfH. W:HeX:eZiYQfH
> B.iM:Bu$fYW . . .
>=20
> Here the term for genitals is from BW$ or "shame" which is the same as
> the root which is substituted for Baal in many names. It was thus a
> practice to use a euphemism. You may read an expurgated TANAK if you
> like, but you're missing the point.
>=20
> The TDNT notes this euphemism and HALOT states
>=20
> =974. a. dual, probably a euphemism for the pubic region Ex 4?25 Is 6?2,
> cf. Wildberger BK 10:248 (see below, B CSH pi.), %a(aR HfRaG:LfYiM pubic
> hair Is 7?20; =97b. SCK: )eT_RaG:LfYW he covered his feet with a garment,
> meaning he relieved himself Ju 3?24 1S 24?4 (? SCK: hif); =97c. $fTfH
> M"YM"Y RaG:L"YHeM (Q), $iYN"YHeM (K) =3D MHeb. M"Y RaG:LaYiM to drink the=
ir
> own urine (? *$aYiN) 2K 1827/Is 36?12.
>=20
> george
> gfsomsel
> ___________