> >>Dave Washburn
>>Actually, when God asks Satan "have you considered my servant
>>Job? Look how
>>great he is. Makes your blood boil, doesn't it?????" (my paraphrase,
>>obviously) it almost appears that God is taunting Satan, daring
>>him to make
>>an accusation. In both chapters, it is God, not Satan, who
brings up the
>>subject of Job. What do you do with that?
>>
>Charles D. Rempel
>Actually the Hebrew says, "Have you set your heart on my servant Job?" A
>little different perspective then is implied by the English translation.
> D. Jim West
True- but in a woodenly literalistic way. Or are you suggesting that
satan pulled out his heart and placed it on job or that that was what
god was asking? of course not- its an idiomatic phrase- quite correctly
rendered in english by "considered" in this context. further- you say
"the Hebrew says... " and then you give an english translation. In
point of fact the Hebrew doesn't say anything in English, it says it in
Hebrew. More correctly you should have said, "the hebrew suggests an
english translation which would go something like this....." I realize
that sound pedantic- and in a way it is- but its precision we should
strive for- and since that is what youve asked of Dave, that's what
should be required of you.
Actually, I had never considered the totally literal thought of taking ones heart out and "setting" it anywhere. While idiomatically it may well be that "considered" is a good translation, there is a possible inference that God is approaching Satan and bringing up the topic. I think that "what the Hebrew suggests" is that Satan had already carefully "considered" Job and therefore, in good English idiom, "set his heart" on testing Job.
From hholmyard AT ont.com Fri Aug 5 23:23:32 2005Return-Path: <hholmyard AT ont.com>
While idiomatically it may well be that "considered" is a good translation, there is a possible inference that God is approaching Satan and bringing up the topic. I think that "what the Hebrew suggests" is that Satan had already carefully "considered" Job and therefore, in good English idiom, "set his heart" on testing Job.
From charlesr AT mygalaxyexpress.com Fri Aug 5 23:59:38 2005Return-Path: <charlesr AT mygalaxyexpress.com>
>Charles: While idiomatically it may well be that
>"considered" is a good translation, there is a
>possible inference that God is approaching Satan
>and bringing up the topic. I think that "what
>the Hebrew suggests" is that Satan had already
>carefully "considered" Job and therefore, in
>good English idiom, "set his heart" on testing
>Job.
HH: The standard interpretation I've heard is
that the devil as the accuser speaks ill of human
beings and finds things to criticize.
Particularly he attacks their loyalty to God. So
as Dave tried to point out, God would be drawing
attention to Job as someone who lived uprightly
before God. God points him out to Satan as a good
testimony, so Satan tries to show that Job serves
God only because of the blessings he receives or
the good times he enjoys.
Job fails to crumble under the pressure so God addresses Satan again:
Job 2:3 ¶ Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you
considered my servant Job? There is no one on
earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a
man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still
maintains his integrity, though you incited me
against him to ruin him without any reason."
Then Satan claimed that that under the
provocation of physical suffering Job would curse
God to His face. Throughout Satan is trying to
disprove Job as an example of a person loyal to
God who did what was right. It is in response to
God's initiative that he takes this tack. But God
evidently acts because Satan is always denying
that people serve God for godly reasons.
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