To: "B-Hebrew" <b-hebrew AT lists.Ibiblio.org>, "Uri Hurwitz" <uhurwitz AT yahoo.com>
Cc:
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] The mystery of vav-consecutive
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:56:10 -0400
Uri,
I copied the unicode from crosswire.com. My system is windows ME, only 2
years newer than yours, but less reliable. Did you try Peter Kirk's post
today about downloading the unicode fonts. Maybe on 98 you have to download
the fonts. I did not have to download anything, but I do keep current with
the windows updates.
-Steve
Detroit
----- Original Message -----
From: Uri Hurwitz
To: Steve Miller
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] The mystery of vav-consecutive
Hi Steve,
What kind of font do you use for the Hebrew? In my museum piece computer,
windows 98, it appears as gibberish. Yet I get modern Israeli press etc
perfectly clearly.
Best, Uri
Long Island, NY
Steve Miller <smille10 AT sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On Sunday 22 May 2005 16:15, Steve Miller wrote:
> > Can anyone give me 5 examples from the Pentateuch where the
vav-consecutive
> > is clearly NOT a tense reversal?
>
From: "Dave Washburn" Sunday, May 22, 2005 7:55 PM
> Reversal of what? You're assuming an awful lot: that we know the tense
of
the
> other forms, that the intention of the waw-forms was to "reverse" one of
the
> other forms, that the tenses resulting from a particular structure are
> deliberate and not incidental to some other factor in the verb form -
> briefly, taking this approach ends up in massive circular reasoning and
gets
> nowhere.
Dave,
I mean reversal from imperfect to perfect and vice versa. I don't see how
I
am assuming all these things. As a boy in Hebrew school, I learned that
the
vav-consecutive reversed tense, but I have no vested interest either way.
I
just want to find out the truth from the usage in the Bible. And I won't
be
convinced unless I see it in the Bible.
If I look at the Bible starting from Gen 1:1 and read far enough to cover
10
vav-consecutives, that will take me to verse 7 and includes 11
vav-consecutive-imperfects . In these verses, 11 out of 11
vav-consecutives
reverse the imperfect to perfect,
while none of the non-vav-consecutives reverse.
However, in Gen 1:6, the only thing that makes וִיהִי not
vav-consecutive is
the vowels.
So that is why I ask, can anyone give me 5 counter examples from the
Pentateuch, where the vav-consecutive does not reverse the imperfect to
perfect?
Below I have copied Gen. 1:1-7 with Darby translation.
* indicates a vav-consecutive imperfect verb. 11 out of 11 are reversed to
translate as past
** is a non-vav-consecutive imperfect verb. 3 out of 3 translated as
present or future
*** is a non-vav consecutive perfect verb. 3 out of 3 translated as past
(Hebrew is copied from www.crosswire.org. Please let me know if this
doesn't
go thru to anyone.)
Gen 1:3 וַיֹּ×מֶר ×Ö±×œÖ¹×”Ö´×™× ×™Ö°×”Ö´×™ ×ֹור
וַֽיְהִי־×ֹֽור׃
And God *said, Let there **be light. And there *was light.
Gen 1:6 וַיֹּ×מֶר ×Ö±×œÖ¹×”Ö´×™× ×™Ö°×”Ö´×™ רָקִיעַ
בְּתֹוךְ ×”Ö·×žÖ¼Ö¸×™Ö´× ×•Ö´×™×”Ö´×™ מַבְדִּיל
בֵּין ×žÖ·×™Ö´× ×œÖ¸×žÖ¸Ö½×™Ö´×׃
And God *said, Let there **be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and
let it **be a division between waters and waters.