permaculture

[Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>]

I guess I don't see racism as a permaculture problem. I see it as a human
problem, with a huge gradient of layers. And I didn't see that article as
being useful to dealing with it. It just seemed a shoddy lambast of
permaculture in a context I've been working in so I spoke up to ask some
more detailed questions. And some of those questions were about cultural
appropriation, which nobody bit on. I'm guessing very few want to have this
conversation, or feel safe doing so, so I'm at least glad we're having it.
We can agree to disagree that Tobias article was on point. And we can agree
on the rest, though we may have different approaches toward the work.

I'm aware permaculture can be perceived as elitist and a white space, but
saying so does discredit a whole lot of people of color who have made big
contributions and apply it in their work (whom I credit and showcase their
work constantly), though most as far as I can tell could care less about
the "movement" part of permaculture, because most that I know are busy in
another movement that is a lot more on point when it comes to ending
oppression. There's this tendency in permaculture for it to be about
everything and for everybody and the truth is nothing is like that. The
shoe doesn't always fit. Most people of color I talk to in my city don't
have time for it. They belong to other communities of activism that meet
their needs better. So be it. I'm not gonna tell them they really need this
permaculture thing that I find particular value in. Their trying to prevent
the police from killing their neighbor, and being hired by the police
department to train their officers, or running for office, or just pissed
off in the street. I ask how I can help them in their movement not the
other way around. We're dealing with different contexts. It's okay. I'm
moving on. I have work to do.

Jason

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 9:34 PM, Kelda Lorax <kelda@riseup.net> wrote:

> Jason, regarding the basics of white privilege, etc take a moment and see
> how I'm addressing everyone who's chimed in on this topic. I admit I'm
> writing as a summary and not addressing point per point for everyone. Since
> you are more trained in anti-racism work than others why didn't you call
> out white fragility instead of me? Regardless of defensive emotions, us
> permaculturists have a lot of work to do addressing cultural appropriation.
> I'm really interested in the solutions and we can't get there if those of
> us who see the problem are not speaking up. You may have been more gentle
> than me, but if it was so gentle that I didn't recognize it as a 'calling
> in' then it might need to be a bit more blunt.
>
> Tobias critique is not even the most seering towards permaculture that
> I've seen. But it's as good place as any to start.
>
> Lawrence, I appreciate your enthusiasm and could say a lot more. But maybe
> for anyone interested in addressing their own racism, this is a really
> useful perspective that's much gentler than I can be:
> http://nonprofitwithballs.com/2016/08/flossing-and-the-denta
> l-hygiene-paradigm-of-race-discourse/
>
> Thanks
> Kelda
>
> On 2017-04-30 13:01, Lawrence London wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Kelda Lorax <kelda@riseup.net> wrote:
>>
>> I am quite racist, in the sense that I have unbidden racist things pop
>>> into my mind and thus I scrutinize my mind heavily.
>>>
>>>
>> What a unique and important topic to bring up. Outstanding. I now see
>> where
>> you are coming from.
>> Maybe we can explore this. I said previously that when such unwanted
>> neural
>> energies burden my as I make my way through each day I respond by thinking
>> about the Australian Aborigines and their contribution to mankind and that
>> they hold the keys to one living in harmony with Nature or rather Gaia.
>> Poof, racist thoughts gone. If only I had known how to do that from age 1
>> to age 40. A related story from my time growing up in a university town.
>> There was a black gentleman who lived nearby whose brother was a stone
>> mason. George Baldwin was a gardener by profession and an eccentric fellow
>> of small stature. He did yard work and landscape maintnance in
>> neighborhoods mostly occupied by university faculty members and their
>> neighbors. He talked to the plants. He was such a skilled horticulturist
>> that he became
>> the famous botanist WC Coker's (Coker-Totten "Trees of the Southeastern
>> United States") favorite gardener. That was a real honor for him.
>> He worked for my parents and other people in the neighborhood. Sometimes
>> he
>> would come to work and after a while disappear for hours.
>> A search would find him curled up under a bush with a wine bottle. No
>> problem. To each, his own. Anyway George seemed to me to be some kind of
>> plant guru, distant and elite, his lack of education notwithstanding.
>> There
>> was something about him and about his work that exuded a mystique about
>> the
>> Earth' landscape, the world of plants what left a lasting impression on
>> me.
>> At age 40 I became a landscape contractor and later moved to farmland and
>> entered the world of natural gardening and permaculture. So, there you go.
>> instead of racist thoughts popping into my mind I have memories of George,
>> a supreme steward of the Earth I was graced to have known and benefitted
>> from.
>>
>>
>> Not because I want to oppress but because I no longer want to be the
>>> oppressor. If you think it's because I Want to think people of color are
>>> lesser, than you don't understand my meaning.
>>>
>>>
>> No, I did not think that.
>>
>>
>>> On a gentler note, my husband and I were talking about this whole string
>>> and he said "Well, everyone feels defensive at first"
>>> -spoken from a man who was Seriously Annoyed every time I pointed out how
>>> racist he is, but now looks for it himself and helps other white people
>>> see
>>> theirs.
>>>
>>>
>> Well done, Kelda!
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lawrence F. London, Jr.
>> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
>> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
>>
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