permaculture

[ChildrensPeaceGuild <childrenspeaceguild@yahoo.com>]

Evan,

Setting aside for a moment the debate over the ethics of copyright, 
intellectual property, etc (which I might happen to agree with you on), I 
believe your hearts are all in the right place. You and the folks at Tagari 
share a similar goal, albeit on different paths.

Perhaps a good compromise would be to feature the book on your site and 
proceed to let people know that it is available for free (though not 
digitally) through inter-library loan. I was able to obtain a copy in less 
than a week. Until your dispute is settled, this seems like a reasonable 
middle ground.

Best of luck,
Roman Shapla

 Children's PEACE Guild
www.childrenspeaceguild.webs.com




________________________________
From: Evan Schoepke <thejulianeffect@gmail.com>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org; Nicholas Roberts 
<niccolo.roberts@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 6:33:13 PM
Subject: [permaculture] Fwd: Copyright Infringement on PERMACULTURE: A 
Designers Manual

Ingenio “Patent”
Campus?<http://punkrockpermaculture.com/2009/11/10/permieliberation/>
•November
10, 2009 • Leave a
Comment<http://punkrockpermaculture.com/2009/11/10/permieliberation/#respond>
(Edit<http://punkrockpermaculture.wordpress.com/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=446>
)

Hello lovely Permies,

Due to my posting of the entire Permaculture Designers
Manual,<http://astore.amazon.com/punkrockperme-20> commonly know
as the permaculture bible, I received a swift take down notice from Tagari
Publications <http://www.tagari.com/>
andScribd<http://www.scribd.com/Gaia%20Punk> which
I respectfully followed.  It is my opinion that this book is so
*important* that
it should be made  completely free on all the myriad internets because we’re
living in a time of extreme ecological and social crisis and the tools
needed to fix the crises must be made available to everyone not just those
with the economic  privilege to afford them.  Please see the letters below
and also* please comment* if you think the designers manual should be
liberated onto the internet.  I feel this debate gets at the very heart of
the permaculture ethic of “fair share” and  I will post any further
correspondence with Tagari here and elsewhere.

I’m starting a *campaign on **twitter* <http://twitter.com/gaiapunk> 
advocating
for the *free release* of the permaculture designers manual. *@gaiapunk
#permieliberation*

*ATTENTION: Evan Schoepke*

Pursuant to 17 USC 512(c)(3)(A), this communication serves as a statement
that:

I am the exclusive rights holder (being the Publisher) for the book titled:
*Permaculture: A Designers’ Manual* written by Bill Mollison.
ISBN 0 908228 01 5 and first published in Australia in 1988 and reprinted in
2004, 2009 by Tagari Publications, Australia.

These exclusive rights are being violated by material that has been
available upon your site at the following URL(s):
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22260478/Permaculture-D-Manual and
http://punkrockpermaculture.com/.
I have a good faith belief that the use of this material in such a fashion
is not authorized by the copyright holder, the copyright holder’s agent, or
the law;

Under penalty of perjury in a United States court of law, I state that the
information contained in this notification is accurate, and that I am
authorized to act on the behalf of the exclusive rights holder for the
material in question.

I may be contacted by the following methods:
*Phone:* (Aus) 61 + 3 6445 0945
*Fax:* 61 + 3 6445 0944
*Address:* 31 Rulla Road, Sisters Creek, Tasmania, 7325, Australia
*Email:* mollison.lisa@tagari.com

I hereby request that you remove or disable access to this material now and
in the future as it appears on your service in as expedient a fashion as
possible. Thank you.

Regards,
Lisa Mollison
Director

My reply:

[image: permaculture
logo]<http://punkrockpermaculture.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/permaculture-logo.jpg>

Okay Tagari,
the book is gone,
I have lost the battle,

however I do know of other places you could find it online for free.  As a
practicing certified urban permaculturalist I believe this event brings up a
interesting philosophical debate.  This book *is* the permaculture bible and
I know that Tagari publishers is sole legal guardian of it’s legacy.  In
fact I love Tagari, and everything it stands for, what it’s doing with the
money it earns, all of it. But, I still think the book should be released
onto the internets for free!  Why? Well, because if there is anything Bill
has shown me it is that we definately don’t have the gaurentee of
permanence to solve the ecological and social crisis that we are facing.  I
feel that perhaps I come from a new and starkly different generation that
believes in a type of movement building that allows for the funding of
projects by lots of people paying a small amount instead of a
few privileged folks paying a lot of money.  I would really love to read
Bill’s book on fermentation, supposedly his best work, but it’s also very
expensive.  I’m not saying Tagari should let go of all it’s copyrights but I
am asking if the time has come for the designers manual to be liberated,
what do you think?  Someday I’m sure the designers manual will be available
free in the public commons and that could make a very large impact, lets
hope that day does not come too late.  Will the field continue to lie open
to every intellect (*ingenio patet campus*) regardless of income?  I’m
interested in your response and wish the very best with all the amazing and
inspiring work your doing now and in the future.

With the greatest respect for Bill, Lisa, Tagari, and the entire global
permaculture network,

Have a fair share day!,

Evan C. Schoepke

Gaia Punk Designs

713 Division ST
Olympia WA, USA
98502
thejulianeffect(at)gmail.com
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>From todd.siegel@gmail.com  Wed Nov 11 11:34:59 2009
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This is a bit of an over-simplification, I believe.  The average
industrial farmer most likely understands painfully well the
biological processes explained below.  The problem is that most
farmers were forced (or suckered) into this method of farming by, so-
called, market forces decades ago. They are now stuck in a cycle of
credit, seed contracts, subsidies, tilling and spraying that is
difficult to break out of.  Farmers don't necessarily need education.
They need help to break this cycle.  What that help is I don't exactly
know, although ending subsidy programs in the US would do a lot to
break the cycle here and ending "free-trade" agreements would help a
lot elsewhere.

I don't fault the farmers.  I fault the system.  Industrial farming is
as much a human tragedy as it is an ecological tragedy.

(Lawrence, if there are worthwhile followup posts on that other list
please forward them to me.  I'd be curious to read them.)

Todd

On Nov 10, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote:

> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [SANET-MG] Educating Conventional Farmers
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:45:46 -0600
> From: Douglas Hinds <cedecor@GMX.NET>
> To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU
>
> Hi Saneters:
>
> As we all know, agriculture is an activity whose success is based on
> biological processes that occur in an ecological context (the soil,
> humidity, air and sunlight), shared by myriad living creatures whose
> participation is relevant to the outcome, beginning with the soil's
> microorganisms.
>
> And as we all know, conventional farmers (those using methods based
> on agrochemicals designed to maximize profits for the manufacturers,
> distributors and promoters of synthetic agricultural inputs that
> create a dependency on their patented and often toxic products by
> eliminating or diminishing the presence, activity and diversity of
> the beneficial organisms responsible for the soils fertility, water
> retaining ability, tilth, pollenization and disease and pest
> control) unfortunately, don't understand this.
>
> If they did, they wouldn't be conventional farmers for long, would
> they?
>
> So the purpose of this post is to ask: How can we fill in the
> blanks? What educational materials -particularly Videos (especially
> in Spanish), Charts and Pamphlets, are capable of making the
> biological nature of farming so easy to understand that conventional
> farmers will be convinced and ready to experiment with sustainable
> technology (before making the switch for good)?
>
> Preferably, audio visual materials that can be obtained via the
> Internet for little or no cost.
>
> Thanks in advance for pointing me to your favorite educational
> materials.
>
> Douglas
>
>
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