permaculture

[Paul Cereghino <paul.cereghino@comcast.net>]

Thanks Graham,

Here here!  I've always noticed that within permaculture talk there is 
often a sense of mystery about what permaculture is, and that mystery 
and a resulting 'over-inclusiveness' leads to conversational divergance 
that can decrease the power and focus of the analysis.  I suspect that 
this has a lot to do with that permaculture is just really hard work, 
wrestling with enormous complexity, and is relatively solitary due to 
the amount of observation, and alternatives analysis required.  It takes 
design into the realm of natural history and ecosystem science, which 
also has had tremendous trouble translating itself into a vernacular 
without loosing meaning.

I would suggest that ironically that despite this, the development of 
effective 'permaculture ready' tools and techniques is absolutely 
necessary to the expansion of use (i.e. creating more 'designers')... 
however tools and techniques may necessarily be developed at a 
bioregional level (or even sub-bioregion) and involve the crunching 
information to identify what local technological elements are most 
effectively incorporated into a permaculture design or can be imported 
from other places with desireable outcomes.  For example -- something 
which I have been looking for -- taking the available breeds of poultry, 
understanding their variable adaptation to my local climate, and then 
deconstructing the differences between the various breeds in terms of 
variations in input/process/output analysis.  In other words, doing some 
of the preliminary assessment work to reduce the information load, so it 
is easier to pickup a tool and use it in a permaculture design network.  
Perhaps this understanding of poultry is currently or are at risk of 
becoming 'lost knowledge', and gainful information reduction is time 
consuming to do without compensation.

I have found that Permawiki struggles because it picks a topic, and then 
tries to provide a 'encyclopedia entry' on that topic, which is better 
accomplished in other venues.  I'd rather see a 'permaculture analysis' 
using well cited, high quality sources of information, but really I'd 
like to see someone doing some of the hard work of permaculture for me ;)

Paul

Graham wrote:

> Hi Larry, probably I didn't express myself too well last night as had
> after all imbibed a few fine ales!
>
> What I meant by my comments was more that permaculture is a set of
> ethics (earthcare, peoplecare, fairshares), principles (work with
> nature, problem is solution, minimum effort:max effect, everything
> gardens, or Mr Holmgren's newer definitions) and design methods (zones
> and sectors, OBREDIM, input and output analysis, making links and
> connections etc, etc). Specific tools and techniques (such as say, herb
> spirals, no dig beds or creating forest gardens) on the other hand may
> be used within permaculture frameworks but are not, as of themselves
> 'permaculture'.
>
> On the permaculture introductory courses that I run I start with a
> session called "What is permaculture?" wherin I get particpants to talk
> about various problems encountered in cities, and possible solutions,
> eg;
> Problem; lack of access to good quality, locally grown organic food -
> solution; get an allotment
> Problem; lack of economic power caused by unemployent, low wages, etc
> Solution; Join a LETS system
> Problem; lack of decent transport links - Solution; Create safe cycle
> networks
> Problem; lack of access to green space - Solution; create community
> gardens on unused urban space
> Problem; Waste and polllution - Solution; Set up community composting
> and recycling projects.
>
> We discuss these ideas for 20 or 30 minutes, talking about what good
> ideas they are and sharing personal experiences of involvement with such
> ideas.
>
> I then make the point that these are 5 excelent solutions to 5 problems,
> but they are NOT permaculture...
>
> BUT when we begin to make links and connections, eg, situating allotment
> and veg growing beds in the community gardens, sell excess produce via
> LETS, set up bicycle trailer delivery systems to drop off veg and take
> away green waste for composting, etc, etc, these 5 ideas and strategies
> become ELEMENTS WITHIN A PERMACULTURAL SYSTEM.
>
> In other words, tools, techniques and strategies aren't of themselves
> permaculture, they are simply elements and its how they are linked and
> connected with each other that defines whether they are part of a
> permacultural system.
>
> Hope thats clarified my thinking a little...
>
> Cheers Graham
>
>
> On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 22:37 -0500, Lawrence F. London, Jr. wrote: 
>  
>
> > Graham wrote:
> >
> >    
> >
> > > i've always maintained (and I hope my review
> > > reflects this) that permaculture is a set of ethics, principles and
> > > design methodologies applicable to any circumstances or situations, and
> > > shouldn't be confused with techniques and strategies which are location
> > > specific.
> > >      
> > Graham:
> >
> > This doesn't seem to fit my view of permaculture. I'll explain why in a reply 
> > to
> > any response you make to this post. So, could you elaborate on why you think 
> > techniques and strategies
> > aren't part of a definition of permaculture but ethics, principles and design 
> > methodologies are?
> >
> > LL
> >