permaculture

["Lawrence F. London, Jr." <lfl@intrex.net>]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Fwd: organic foods under attack
Date:   Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:03:03 -0600
From:   Cropper, James - Greensboro, NC <james.cropper@GNB.USDA.GOV>
To:     SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

"Organic foods under attack" was the post header and the unsubstantiated
assertions made in the body of the email concerning what is fed to dairy
calves is precisely why there are now websites to refute such
accusations, such as the one I posted in the previous email I sent.
"Weaned on cow's blood", etc.  Where did that come from?  The url blog
on milk is milk is long but well worth reading.  It sets the record
straight on the issue of organic versus "conventional" milk.  We have to
be careful in agriculture not to fear monger ourselves into deeper
trouble than we already are.  For instance, as we lose small dairy farms
across the country (100 head or less), the percentage of grazing-based
dairies goes up, but primarily due to the higher attrition rate of the
confinement dairies in that size category, not necessarily the higher
adoption rate of grazing dairy cows.  In the case of the previous post I
replied to, both grazing dairies and confinement dairies are branded as
being "conventional" dairies.  Yet, there are dairy graziers that would
say only the confinement dairies are "conventional".  There is room for
all, but milk is milk.  If organic milk gives you peace of mind, by all
means buy it, but don't force me to follow suit.  We do not need to
denigrate each other's product within the agriculture community, because
it reduces our ability to sell our differently produced products because
we have scared people away from the primary product altogether.  We have
a very well regulated dairy industry.  Those who have attempted to
bottle their own milk will attest to that, but our milk supply is safe
regardless of how the milk was produced to get it to the processing plant.

Jim Cropper

James B. Cropper
Forage Management Specialist
East NTSC
Northwood Building, Suite 410
200 E. Northwood Street
Greensboro, NC 27401
james.cropper@gnb.usda.gov
(336) 370-3346


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Fwd: organic foods under attack
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 22:42:33 -0500
From: Dylan Ford <dford@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU


And crap is crap.
Now if I wish to buy purely organic products I shall not be able to do
so because of the watering down of the concept, by corrupt Averys and
corporate Republicans, of what that term shall mean, sanctioned by the
Croppers of the world. If the Averys and the rest of you think we are
all deluded, why don't you tend to your own business and leave us to our
comforting delusions?

Now the term "Organic" has begun the slide into new-speak
meaninglessness and we out here that are not the least bit interested in
Alex Avery's opinion on anything will have to find a new term that we
can agree on, one that means what we want it to, not sorta like what we
want after it goes through the corporate-USDA fog machine. This message
will have to make it past the USDA censors who are hoping for a cushy
retirement post in biotech so it is unlikely it will ever see the light
of day.

dylan

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:        Re: [SANET-MG] Fwd: organic foods under attack
Date:   Wed, 2 Nov 2005 08:52:00 -0500
From:   David Conner <connerda@CARRS.MSU.EDU>
To:     SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

Hi Jim and others on this thread. Jim, thanks for clarifying.

Jim, I think there is a huge difference between differentiating and
denigrating. In my opinion, the future success of American agriculture
lies largely in product differentiation. If all milk is milk, if all
products are the same, people are going to buy what is cheap. And I do
not think that the US is going to be the low cost producer of much of
anything. China and Brazil are beating our butts in the race for cheap
apples and soy, for example. Given our high land and labor costs,
relatively short cropping seasons and high ecological standards, I don’t
see US farms surviving this “race to the bottom”

Also, I believe that we need to have farms dispersed everywhere in the
world where people live. Here in the US, for reasons of the social and
economic health of rural communities, ecological service provision,
aesthetics and most importantly, food security, I work every day to help
keep farmers on the land.  (I try anyway J). I doubt if anyone on this
list wants US farms to go away.

Therefore, IMO, the key to survival is to market US products as being
special, in any (or many) of a number of ways: locally grown, organic,
biodynamic, grass fed, IPM, socially just, raised without hormones or
antibiotics, “GMO-free”, whatever floats the farmers’ and consumers’
proverbial boats. I would go so far as to say commodity agriculture,
which depends on milk is milk, corn is corn, etc., has been horrible for
US agriculture, narrowing the margins to a point where only big farms
can succeed. Countless studies have shown that this trend is socially
and economically bad for rural communities. If all milk is milk, none of
the extra values (animal welfare, env. friendly, socially just,
whatever) will be considered. And a marketplace where the only value is
money is a very dangerous place. I wholeheartedly endorse the use of any
truthful claim to differentiate products and express the underlying
values of the product. If you don’t care, don’t buy it (no one is
forcing you). But marketing on the basis of these values can keep small
to medium scale farms on the land in a way commodity ag does not.

To be cynical, the Monsanto and other agribusiness giants (who fund the
Milk is Milk website done by the Center for Global Food Issues and the
Hudson Institute) will do just fine whether they sell their stuff in
Michigan or Brazil.  Commodity agriculture serves them and their
shareholders very well. But for me, I want a diversity of farm types
around me, supplying food to my family and into the future. I support my
local farms, not out of fear, but out of civic pride, out of respect for
their hard work, and with great confidence that buying and eating food
grown naturally is good for me, my family, my community and the earth.

Jim, I don’t mean to bash you, because I’d bet you would agree with a
lot of what I said. I also work a great deal promoting pasture-based ag.
and I respect you for doing the same.

Thanks for reading, all

David

David S. Conner, Ph.D.
Agricultural Economist
C.S. Mott Group for Sustainable Food Systems
303 Natural Resources Building
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824-1222
(517) 353-1914
connerd@msu.edu <mailto:connerd@carrs.msu.edu>


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Fwd: organic foods under attack
Date:   Wed, 2 Nov 2005 09:11:33 -0600
To:     SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

David,

I have nothing against differentiation of products and niche marketing.
However, we do not need to have one niche market bad mouthing the other
or the industry they reside in as a whole.  Say the milk was produced
the way Granddad produced it with lots of tender loving care and on
pasture when the weather permitted.  In northern Illinois the pasture
season was May 1 to just about Thanksgiving Day.  Then, they were fed
corn silage, hay, and ground ear corn with a bit of mineral concentrate
mixed in.  Of course, we were already stooges for the seed corn
companies since we were using hybrid corn instead of open pollinated (a
few old bags of it were still hung from the rafters in the corn crib,
testament to a bygone era).  It was wonderful though that we had to
build new and even temporary corn cribs to handle the additional corn we
produced nearly every year.  We were able to expand our hog operation as
a result with the same farm acreage.

The whole thing about world trade I have no answer for.  Yes, I buy
locally produced food whenever it presents itself.  However, I am not
sure that will solve the basic inequity of our current standard of
living with the rest of the world.  It is just not food, but everything
we purchase.  How much stuff can you find in any store now that is made
in the US, let alone down the street?   The problem is much bigger than
agriculture alone.  I have for years sought to buy made in America, but
it has done little to stem the tide.  I am now forced to buy "made
anywhere but here" on nearly everything I purchase, even food items more
and more are displaying made in Canada or produce of Mexico or Chile.
The last couple of days the news casts have been full of plant closures
and layoffs.  The lowest common denominator may be a lot worse than we
collectively can imagine right now.  It certainly will impact more than
where our food comes from.  I suspect it will also include our income.

Jim Cropper


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [SANET-MG] Fwd: organic foods under attack
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:08:40 -0600
From: Ronald Nigh <rbnigh@PRODIGY.NET.MX>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

Let's face it folks, USDA organics is over.  We are the laughing
stock of the world. Those who wanted to "mainstream" organic farming
have finally gotten their wish. The organic label now serves the same
big, profit-greedy agribusiness that produces our 'conventional'
food. Congress has now caved in to lobbying pressure (as it always
does) and corrupted the organic label beyond respect. Organic food
can now legally controbute its part to make Americans the fattest,
most diabetic and unhealthy population on earth.  Internal traitors
such as OTA and the 'consultants' who were paid to 'advise' Congress
on this should simply be ashamed of themselves. Congress itself is
already beyond shame.  The real losers are, as always, the farmers,
even if many of them are too brainwashed to realize it.

Only one more step is lacking to fully 'mainstream' USDA organic: US
will begin to bully other countries into accepting the same lowered
standards on US exports, just as they have been trying to cram GMOs,
BST and blood-fed beef down everybody's throats. Wake up America.

I guess all we have left is local grassroots organization, eat local
food, know your farmers, grow your own.  Maybe "organic trade" wasn't
such a good idea to begin with.  Too bad, with a little ethics it
might have worked.