permaculture

[Paul Wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>]

> Permaculture is far too important and
> diverse a movement (philosophy? DEsign system? Call it what you will...) for
> us all to 'be nice' to each other. 

Hmmmmm ...  a half million people are coming to JavaRanch each month.  I 
delete less than
one message per thousand.  The topics there are mighty important (at least to 
those
participants and their employers).  Somehow, this "nice" thing appears to 
work.  But hey,
it's an option!  No one is required to use this resource.  Just if it doesn't 
look nice
to me, I can erase it.  And then all that's left on this one web site is 
wholesome
discussion about permaculture.

> We are talking about the permanent
> culture that is just about the only way forward in an energy descent future
> scenario, and that is something alot of us are passionate about, often in
> very different ways.

Yes!  And I wish to capture and publish that passion that sounds healthy to 
me.  If
people wanna beat each other up, I'm okay with that, as long as they do it 
somewhere
else.

>  Healthy, active, thriving and caring communities don't stifle dissent and
> transgression with "iron fist" imposed false 'hamony'

If you wish to label what I do as all that, I'm okay with that.  But I would 
like to
point out that JavaRanch is the most "healthy, active, thriving and caring 
community"
about Java.  So whatever it is that I'm doing, must be okay.  

>  (ever read 'Brave New
> World'???)

Yes!  

> they work through the conflicts, the distress and the anger and
> through often painful processes sometimes reach resolution and consesnsus of
> a sort. Other times one or other party might just 'fess up, "yeah I was
> being ratty yesterday, I'm sorry and today I'm going to try harder"- big-ups
> to those big enough to admit their human 'failings' I say, isn't the most
> wonderful thing about the human condition it's predeliction for
> inconsistency?

Your approach sounds really interesting.  Maybe it would work too!

But I'm gonna stick to my approach on my web site.

> Permaculture ain't just about sheet mulch and orchards, its about the whole
> nitty gritty of human dynamics. 

Yup!

> Personally I'm not interested in a cozy
> 'permaculture comfort zone' where nobody ever treads on each others toes, I
> want somewhere where we can at least make a start on working through the
> dialectics of human sustainability, and if that gets a bit painful
> sometimes, so be it.

Sounds like you need to make a web site too!

> I know that on a deeper level everybody here is
> actually part of the supporting community that is the international PC
> network, and we're all capable of having our off days and fraught moments- I
> have heated rows with my partner when we can both be far from 'nice' to each
> other, but really we actually love and support each other deeply.

Good!

> BTW I too am on a number of other PC forums, some where the heated debates
> and arguments that occur here would be inappropriate (usually due to being
> strictly about quite focused information exchnage, etc rather than
> 'debate'), but I thiink it is brillaint that this list continues to provide
> this open debate forum.

Would you be so kind as to provide some links?  As I mentioned before, my 
primary need is
to hook up with a larger permaculture community.

> (tempted to finish with "have a nice day", but thought better of it... ;-)

Have another day!  They're free!