pcplantdb

[Chad Knepp <pyg@galatea.org>]

Hi John,

I don't mean to diss Toby.  I really respect his work and his ability
to explain permaculture concepts so clearly.  I think it's this level
of clarity that has generated such a focused interest in guilds.  You
go on to [re]state my own concerns with this focus on guilds better
than I was able to.  Thanks.

John Schinnerer writes:
 > Hi all,
 > 
 > I'm in the throes of moving, but will comment briefly as I am still 
 > interested
 > in the project.
 > 
 > Guilds are one of many important concepts in permaculture design.  However,
 > actual guild design has to be based on localized observation and 
 > expertise. I
 > agree with Chad that guild design as a primary objective at such an early
 > stage of this project is not appropriate.
 > 
 > I don't support offering oversimplified and/or "pre-packaged" guilds, which
 > IMO is a PC type one error in terms of both education and implementation.
 > 
 > There is enough written about guilds for people to start with in designing
 > their own locally appropriate guilds, if they have sufficient plant 
 > knowledge.
 >  I support linking or including this info in the DB somehow, as articles or
 > references.  Even Toby makes it quite clear (to me anyhow) that guild 
 > design
 > is localized, somewhat mysterious, and a very young "field of activity" and
 > that his examples are just that - examples of patterns to look for and work
 > with locally, not recipies.
 >
 > AND - if we indclude in the DB information on guild-relevant traits,
 > characteristics, behaviors etc. of plants, that will be useful for design 
 > of
 > guilds based on local observation and expertise and substitution of locally
 > appropriate species.
 > 
 > This will include info we'd probably have anyway - plant size, shape,
 > maturity/growth rate, shading, soil type, moisture preferences, companions 
 > and
 > non-companions, inputs, outputs, similar/related species, and so on and 
 > on. 
 > All this info supports choosing plants for locally appropriate guild
 > experiments.
 > 
 > In other words, I think a good PC-centric DB will offer plenty of info to
 > assist guild design without having to be a "guild DB."

Exactly.  I have found PFAF and Eden to be very helpful in doing this
already because I can look for plants that have the characteristics
and micro-climate suitability to fit into a specific niche.

 > > Perhaps we can decide on some initial user-script/interface,
 > 
 > We need a back-end implemented first, or at the very least in conjunction
 > with.    Othewise any UI is just a mock-up or demo with a few bits of 
 > canned
 > data.
 > 
 > Given all the various plant DBs already in existence, and from Chad's 
 > comments
 > about merging data, perhaps a useful approach is to make this a project to
 > integrate as much as possible from existing DBs in ways that make it more
 > accessible and/or useful and/or relevant to permaculture design - and add 
 > more
 > as well.  Seems more PC to me - leveraging and integrating existing systems
 > for maximum benefit, rather than starting from scratch.

I realize I keep saying this, but I think people should consider Eden
as starting point for future development.  I wrote it with that in
mind, so the code is GPLed, clean, commented, and OO.  At least look
at it and tell me what it needs to become a base for development.

I would be very interested in *brainstormy* type ideas on what people
think would be most helpful to the permaculturalist.  I'm hearing that
tools to facilitate guild development is near the top of the list, but
what else is out there?  I have stated what I think is important at
galatea.org/eden and in various emails but I suspect there are other
good ideas out there that haven't been aired.


-- 
Chad Knepp
perl -e 'print pack"H*","7079674067616c617465612e6f72670a"'