Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davedonnelly1 <davedonnelly1 AT juno.com>]

Hi again Oun.

This is my second reply to your question

You previously asked:

>>>
If I may, is there any summary I can find on arguments against Yahweh
as the pronunciation of the tetragrammaton? 
Would it be less accurate  than, say, Ye-Ho-Wa(h)?
>>>

Oun, your question is being asked by many English speaking Christians,
like myself,
but there doesn't seem to be any satisfactory answer being provided by
Hebrew Scholars, 
or by other Christians,

Both names (Y)Jeho(W)Vah and "Yahweh" have their problems,
but they don't have the same problem.

Jehovah is taught by Hebrew Scholars to be an  erroneous transliteration
of a legitimate Hebrew Word,
[i.e. Hebrew Word #3068] which occurs 6518 times in the Ben Chayyim
Hebrew text that underlies the Old Testament of the King James Bible.

The Scholarly complaint against the English transliteration
"(Y)Jeho(W)vah is not that it is an inaccurate transliteration of the
Hebrew letters found in Hebrew Word #3068,
BUT THAT THE MASORETES NEVER MEANT HEBREW WORD #3068 TO BE TRANSLITERATED

AS IT WAS WRITTEN!!!.

Hebrew Scholars insist on saying that the Masoretes placed the vowel
points of Adonai into YHWH and created a hybrid name that was never meant
to be pronounced as it was written.

Hebrew scholars insist that Hebrew Word #3068 is an example of what is
referred to as "Perpetual Qere" or "Qere Perpetuum".

Of course KJBO Christians have a problem with this definition , because
the Masoretes never placed the precise vowel points of Adonai into Hebrew
Word #3068. [i.e. The first vowel point in Hebrew word #3068 and the
first vowel point in "Adonai" are not the same.]
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
_________________________________________________________________________
_____

A different problem exists with "Yahweh". 

The underlying Hebrew of the English word "Yahweh" is found in no extant
Hebrew Text on the planet earth. The Hebrew Scholar Gesenius, in the
early 19th century, proposed the Hebrew punctuation [yod-
patah-heh-silent shewa-waw-segol-heh] and offered it as a possible
original punctuation of the proper name of the God of Israel. 
Of course Gesenius did not believe that Hebrew Word #3068 was actually
God's name, although he did acknowledge "up front" in his writings, that
the Masoretes had not placed the precise vowel points of "Adonai"  into
"YHWH" to form what is considered by most Hebrew Scholars to be a hybrid
name.

So Oun, in a sense what I have written above is the controversy about
Jehovah and Yahweh in a nut shell. 

Myself and many KJBO Christians question the Scholarly answer given by
many Hebrew Scholars that Hebrew word #3068 is a hybrid name that was
created by the Masoretes when they placed the vowel points of "Adonai"
into YHWH. Myself and many if not all KJBO Christians question the
Scholarly Answer, because the Masoretes never placed the precise vowels
of "Adonai" into YHWH, and scholarly sources are not consistent in
explaining precisely why the Masoretes did not indeed place the precise
vowel points of Adonai into YHWH.

Oun. You are not alone in asking questions about Jehovah and Yahweh.

Dave Donnelly
____________________________________________________________
Small Business Tools
Compete with the big boys.  Click here to find products to benefit your 
business.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=LW2ZuYQ5qxzUlp7egurrKwAAJ1BVGyITH_OGb159rldJgo3SAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARMQAAAAA=
>From akivarubinstein AT gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 10:49:11 2010
Return-Path: <akivarubinstein AT gmail.com>
X-Original-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 3002)
        id 3CCFD4C014; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:49:11 -0500 (EST)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3 (2007-08-08) on malecky
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=disabled
        version=3.2.3
Received: from mail-vw0-f49.google.com (mail-vw0-f49.google.com
        [209.85.212.49])
        by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0C974C013
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:49:04 -0500 
(EST)
Received: by vws4 with SMTP id 4so585689vws.36
        for <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:49:04 -0800 
(PST)
Received: by 10.224.87.68 with SMTP id v4mr3935873qal.192.1266940143254;
        Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:49:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from comm745-dhcp061.bu.edu (comm745-dhcp061.bu.edu [128.197.78.61])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 34sm271084yxf.47.2010.02.23.07.49.00
        (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5);
        Tue, 23 Feb 2010 07:49:01 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077)
From: Alex <akivarubinstein AT gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <448F4E17E0854B88A4A4685517031800@usere5c2048031>
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 10:49:00 -0500
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <BB6A820A-F9AD-4730-9242-CB1C5DB19445 AT gmail.com>
References: <448F4E17E0854B88A4A4685517031800@usere5c2048031>
To: Yigal Levin <leviny1 AT mail.biu.ac.il>, b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077)
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] FW:  Dividing the Earth
X-BeenThere: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Biblical Hebrew Forum <b-hebrew.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew>
List-Post: <mailto:b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew>,
        <mailto:b-hebrew-request AT lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:49:11 -0000

I accept the well deserved reprimand. I just couldn't help it. I =
apologize Ron, I didn't mean any disrespect. I do respect well =
elaborated mythologies and that is (I supposed) my brain brought up the =
Stargate saga . The date of Adam that you proposed reminded me of this =
article=20

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/sumerians_look_on_in_confusion_as=20=


(is not peer reviewed, so it should be taken with a grain of salt).=20

Alejandro F. Botta

PS. Sorry for not signing with my full name in the last post. When I =
write silly e-mails I try to hide behind "Alex" :-)

PS2. I know, I know, I should have signed with "Alex" also this e-mail  =
:-)

On Feb 22, 2010, at 5:13 PM, Yigal Levin wrote:

> Alex,
>=20
> As a Stargate fan, I enjoyed the joke. However, as co-moderator of =
B-Hebrew,
> I must protest your disrespect of what I assume Ron meant as a serious
> (albeit kina off-topic) post.
>=20
> And please remember sign your full name. Otherwise I'll be forced to =
hand
> you over to the Goa'uld Apophis.
>=20
> Yigal Levin
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alex
> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:59 PM
> To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Dividing the Earth
>=20
> I think your explanation contradicts the theories of Dr. Daniel =
Jackson  He
> proposes that the Pyramids of Giza are much older than they are =
thought to
> be.  Catherine Langford agreed with him.
>=20
> Alex
>=20
> On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:19 AM, Ron Snider wrote:
>=20
>> Unlike some others, who may have more discretion than I do, I will=20
>> venture to speak on this issue.  The earth, as many in the scientific=20=

>> community have already recognized, was likely one single continent in=20=

>> the beginning.  Pangea is the favored term.  At the flood, the earth =
was=20
>> certainly impacted by an icy visitor for space.  This is based on the=20=

>> following.
>>=20
>> Science confirms sudden mass extinction, and there are still remnants =
of=20
>> wooly mammoths in Siberia with remnants of undigested food in their=20=

>> stomach.  This suggests flash freezing as opposed to slow onset cold.
>>=20
>> Genesis indicates that the waters above were precipitated out over a=20=

>> period of 40 days, which would be what we would expect if extremely =
warm=20
>> vapor surrounding the earth was suddenly met with cold on the order =
of=20
>> absolute zero.  Gen. 7:4,12
>>=20
>> Further, it is evident that large quantities of subterranean waters =
were=20
>> suddenly released, as seen in the phrase "the fountains of the great=20=

>> deep burst open", which employs a Niphal perfect of BQY, indicating =
an=20
>> outside agent.  It is my contention, and I am not alone in this, that=20=

>> the pre-flood earth was the reverse of what we see now.  By that I =
mean=20
>> approximately 2/3 land visible and 1/3 water, as now we have 2/3 =
water=20
>> and 1/3 land.=20
>>=20
>> The icy visitor crashed with such force, as we would expect with an=20=

>> extra-terrestrial collision, that it shattered and the remnants were=20=

>> attracted to the earth's magnetic poles, thus explaining the present=20=

>> condition of the north and south poles.=20
>>=20
>> A careful study of the Bible, both OT and NT, indicates that =
prophetic=20
>> years are 360 days, such as in Daniel, time, times and half a =
time=3D3.5=20
>> years=3D42 months=3D1260 days.  I personally think this is due to the =
fact=20
>> that before the flood, the earth was upright, and the length of a =
year=20
>> was 360 days.  At the impact, the earth was knocked off its axis and=20=

>> that accounts for the present length of year and the known tilt.
>>=20
>> This impact would  appear to have stuck the one land mass, and began =
the=20
>> division of the earth, which became visible in Peleg's day, and =
accounts=20
>> for the known reality of continental drift.  Thus, as the continents=20=

>> were moving apart at a more significant rate (visible?) the force =
pushed=20
>> up the mountain ranges we now see.
>>=20
>> In conjunction with the tower of Babel, where the languages were=20
>> supernaturally confused, the continental separation accounts for the=20=

>> current division of the earth.  The land bridges that were formed=20
>> eventually were stretched so thin, they collapsed, but the evidence =
for=20
>> their existence is still seen in the Aleutian Islands, which would =
have=20
>> reached to Russia at one time.
>>=20
>> This is all based on faith of course, since none of us were there. =20=

>> However, given the current state of the earth, this model fits what =
we=20
>> are told in the Bible and what we see today.
>>=20
>> FWIW, my study of Genesis suggested that this all occurred in about=20=

>> 2302-2301 B.C. with a date for Adam at 3958 B.C.
>>=20
>> This all indicates that mankind as been on the earth for =
approximately=20
>> 6000 years, which is most of the Divine week.  I believe Messiah will=20=

>> return and establish the Millennial Kingdom shortly, with 1000 years =
of=20
>> peace and prosperity, the evidence for which is rampant in the =
Prophets=20
>> and clearly articulated in the book of Revelation, which is obviously=20=

>> outside the parameters of B-Hebrew.
>>=20
>> Shalom and Eirene,
>>=20
>> Ron Snider,
>> Pastor-teacher,
>> Makarios Bible Church
>> Makarios-online.org
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> b-hebrew mailing list
>> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>=20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20
> Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2703 - Release Date: =
02/22/10
> 09:34:00
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew