[NAFEX] How many on listserv?

Mark & Helen Angermayer hangermayer at isp.com
Sat Feb 16 12:58:57 EST 2008

There has been a lot of discussion about the ibiblio listserv bringing folks
into Nafex.  I understand there are about 1500 members of Nafex.  I'd be
curious if anyone knows how many people are registered to use the listserv
(for the record one does not have to be a paying member to use the listserv,
and as long as ibiblio has been hosting the listserv it has never been any
other way.)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Garriss" <>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Copying Electronic Pomonas

> I wonder how many of the people involved in this discussion (especially
> about the listserv) have ever looked at the site that hosts this list?
> Ibiblio.org...if you look at the ibiblio home page, right at the top you
> see (except there are graphics):
> ibiblio the public's library and digital archive
> a collaboration of the School of Information and Library Science and the
> School of Journalism and Mass Communication at The University of North
> Carolina - Chapel Hill
> Reading a bit further you see:
> Home to one of the largest "collections of collections" on the Internet,
> ibiblio.org is a conservancy of freely available information, including
> software, music, literature, art, history, science, politics, and
> cultural studies. ibiblio.org is a collaboration of the School of
> Information and Library Science <http://sils.unc.edu/> and the School of
> Journalism and Mass Communication <http://www.jomc.unc.edu/> at The
> University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill <http://www.unc.edu>.
> FOLLOWING TERMS AND CONDITIONS:All software, documentation, research
> data, and other materials ("Materials") submitted for installation on
> the ibiblio.org Internet Server will be deemed in the public domain,
> except for any express restrictions included in such Materials by the
> submitting party. The University of North Carolina ("UNC") is not
> responsible for providing notice of or enforcing any such restrictions.
>    All parties submitting Materials to the ibiblio.org Internet Server
> represent and warrant to UNC that the submission, installation, copying,
> distribution, and use of such Materials in connection with the
> MetaLab.unc.edu Internet Server will not violate any other party's
> proprietary rights. UNC is not responsible for any errors created in or
> damage to the Materials as a result of their installation or maintenance
> on the Internet Server, or their use by anyone accessing the Internet
> Server.
> Since I work at the aforementioned university, I am quite familiar with
> ibiblio.
> It seems to me that ibiblio does for many areas what I view the NAFEX
> list as doing for a single area:  educating, coaching, sharing
> information, encouraging others.  No, I am not a current NAFEX member,
> yes I was for a number of years.  However, I found that I was less and
> less interested in Pomona and the articles and more and more interested
> in the camaraderie, information exchange (more or less real time) and
> targeted information on the list.  The list represents a vibrant lively
> forum.  I would not like to see the list become closed, available to
> members only, etc.  And I think that would by oppositional to the site
> that has hosted it for quite some time now.  Might I again become a
> NAFEX member?  Perhaps.  Do I think an electronic version of Pomona has
> merit?  Yes, it saves paper, postage and a host of other things.  It
> could be handled as a PDF and e-mailed to the paid members - most of
> whom I would presume have internet access.  Perhaps you could have one
> price for the electronic version, another if someone wanted paper.  You
> could archive and make available to members the back copies of Pomona.
> There are a host of alternatives.
> Just my 2 cents worth.
> Chris Garriss
> On 14.02.2008 08:50 William C. Garthright spoke thusly:
> >> How do we control the Mullah so he sends only to people who can't
> >> honestly afford membership?  That is one problem. There are also just
> >> as many, maybe more, dishonest Americans than in allthestans.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Personally, I think you're worrying FAR too much about this hypothetical
> > band of rogue fruit-lovers who can't wait to get their hands on a
> > bootleg copy of "Pomona." Are you also that worried about libraries? Or
> > about members who pass their copy on to a friend after reading it? Most
> > organizations - and even some businesses - consider this to be good
> > publicity.*
> >
> > And if you think about it, these fruit-enthusiast thieves would have to
> > be current members of NAFEX, people actually dropping their membership
> > because they can steal a free issue, before this would do NAFEX any harm
> > at all. Assuming some mastermind actually bootlegs "Pomona" to
> > fruit-lovers all across the world (the mind boggles), that actually
> > means that he'd be fulfilling NAFEX's goal of education even better than
> > we're doing now. How would this be a problem, even in the unlikely event
> > it would happen? Are we just that obsessed with the idea that someone,
> > somewhere might be getting something for nothing?
> >
> > I don't know how many people are on this email list, but with all the
> > great information available here, I suspect that it furthers NAFEX's
> > goals even better than "Pomona," especially considering that the
> > archives are available online. And I'm sure some people on this list
> > aren't members of NAFEX. I wasn't, at first. But why is that a problem?
> > Most of these people no doubt have a far more casual interest in fruit
> > than our typical member, at least right now. If you kick them off the
> > list, they won't join NAFEX. They'll just get their free information
> > elsewhere. If the list stays open to them, they might get hooked on
> > fruit, and THEN they're likely to join.
> >
> > If you want to share your love for fruit, then share your love for
> > fruit. Why the huge concern that someone might be getting information
> > free? Or the really bizarre concern about bootlegging "Pomona" to the
> > rest of the world? I just don't get it. Do you really think that
> > increased restrictions within the group will *increase* membership? That
> > was the whole point of this original discussion, that membership in
> > NAFEX is HALF what it used to be. I suspect that the vast majority of
> > the world - the vast majority of people even in North America - have
> > never heard of NAFEX. Maybe we actually need a bootlegger to get the
> > word out for us.
> >
> > IMHO, making NAFEX more secretive and less open to prospective members
> > is exactly the wrong direction. We don't join NAFEX because information
> > is not available elsewhere. There's more information already available
> > online than any of us have time to read. No, we join NAFEX to support
> > the organization, to share our love of fruit-growing, and because we
> > like the group and the people in it. There is *way* too much concern
> > here that someone else might be getting something for nothing.
> >
> > Just my opinion, of course. Things are different in the Internet age. We
> > must recognize that and evolve, or die out like the dinosaurs.
> >
> > Bill
> > Lincoln, NE
> >
> > *PS. Many publishers post full copies of their books online - entirely
> > free. Check out Baen Books, for example. (
> > http://www.baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm ) Sure, a lot of people
> > probably read these for free and never buy the book. But they feel that
> > the publicity is worth it. If you try a book online, you might become a
> > loyal fan of that author. And most people WILL buy books. I've read
> > these, because it's a great way to discover new authors. These are
> > commercial enterprises, for-profit book publishers, who are posting
> > these. Why would we worry more about disseminating free information than
> > they do?
> >
> >
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