[cc-sampling] He speaks!:)

MARK / negativland markhosler at bellsouth.net
Wed Aug 4 17:06:05 EDT 2004


At 1:15 PM -0700 8/4/04, Glenn Otis Brown wrote:
>>Dunno what to make of that. It may simply be 
>>that the CC crew is swamped and underfunded and 
>>overextended and let this thing slide with out 
>>realizing it (?).
>
>that's pretty much it, except for the not 
>realizing it part. give me a little time and 
>i'll give you a full response.



Great to hear!

>  there's also the factor that this list has 
>established itself as a bit of a conversational 
>tarbaby, with wholly unproductive and uninformed 
>name-calling becoming the norm.


Haven't seen that sort of thing myself. The last 
thing I got from this list was way back in 
mid-March.

Or do you mean me? I did send in a very direct 
critique of the re-naming of the licence, but I 
acknowledged I  was being direct and blunt, and 
quite frankly, that's Negativland's job here - to 
discuss and debate and point out things we think 
work and don't work. That's  why you "hired" us. 
I am sure you are swamped, but from our 
perspective as project leads, it simply *was* 
kinda bad form to go and change the name like you 
did with no warning and discussion.

Sorry if that doesn't make for fun reading for 
you, but neither did being dropped out of the 
loop on our end.  It felt frustrating and 
confusing.  I am sure from your perspective on 
the inside of CC things seemed entirely 
different...

>
>>  Kinda sloppy behavior, yep,
>
>this is exactly what i mean. it doesn't exactly 
>make it a thrill to roll out of bed and start 
>typing on this list.


What I actually said was -

"Kinda sloppy behavior, yep, but it happens to the best of us! :)"

Please note the smiley face and the 
acknowledgement that "it happens to the best of 
us". I am trying to point things out but also 
trying to be nice about it! :)



>>
>>Hopefully some clarification will be forthcoming.
>>
>
>yes, it will. but mandarins like me, you should 
>know, juggle many many balls, and as much as i 
>love this license and project, there is a lot of 
>stuff going on here.


I am sure there is. But when you go completely 
silent (as  happened quite a few times on this 
project) we simply don't know what is going on 
anymore.  You can be a hard man to get a response 
out of sometimes! :)


Mark




>
>>
>>>I think they (actually it's really only 2-3 really
>>>hard working people) did a pretty good job of trying to incorporate
>>>feedback from this list. i'm sorry you feel so downtrodden, and i wish
>>>it could have been different. I wish there had been a worldwide
>>>plebecite to determine the proper name of the license. but alas, there
>>>was not.
>>>
>>>If it pisses you off, don't use the license! go make your own!
>>
>>
>>The point of this list is to discuss this 
>>stuff, not just dismiss opinions. David from 
>>LOCA is taking a tone that is a bit over the 
>>top for my tastes, but he is asking some good 
>>questions, nonetheless. Your reply sounds too 
>>much  like the old "hey, if you don't like our 
>>country, why don't you leave!" comment that is 
>>directed at critics of our government.  That 
>>kind of thinking stops healthy debate dead in 
>>it's tracks. The point of this list was to have 
>>healthy debate!
>>
>>mark
>>
>>>  Or
>>>just call it the Sampling License. Creative Commons cannot and will
>>>not stop you. Call it whatever you like!  Start your own nonprofit!
>>>Free us from the tyranny of Minister Gil!  Please do it somewhere
>>>other than in my mailbox though...
>>>
>>>ck
>>>
>>>On Wed, Aug 04, 2004 at 08:02:20PM +0100, David wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  > And for the grand finale, Minister of Culture Gilberto Gil will
>>>>  > officially release a few of his songs under the License Formerly
>>>>  > Known as Sampling, which, from this moment forward, will be called
>>>>  > Recombo, a name inspired by the Brazilian art collective re:combo.
>>>>  > Minister Gil was in Lisbon last week, playing with Paul McCartney
>>>>  > and others, and just earlier this week he inaugurated the Brazil v.
>>>>  > Argentina futebol match with song on national television. Needless
>>>>  > to say we are humbled and thrilled beyond belief to have him
>>>>  > preside over this important day. And as if that weren't enough, Mr.
>>>>  > Gil is playing a live show later tonight. Recombo-licensed songs
>>>>  > will be featured.
>>>>  >
>>>>  > Brazil offers two gifts to the world today: Recombo creativity, and
>>>>  > the music of Gilberto Gil.
>>>>  >
>>>>  > More soon. Stay tuned.
>>>>  >
>>>>
>>>>  -----
>>>>
>>>>  Now that's what I call democracy!
>>>>
>>>>  Certainly questions should be asked...
>>>>
>>>>  - Who exactly was so inspired I wonder?
>>>>
>>>>  - Why exactly are we naming licenses after currently existing groups?
>>>>  (In which case I would have preferred the Negativland license myself
>>>>  ;-)
>>>>
>>>>  - What (to repeat an earlier question I asked) was the point of this
>>>>  list?
>>>>
>>>>  - Does anyone have the feeling that the sampling license (RIP) has
>>>>  become an advertising hoarding?
>>>>
>>>>  - Will Creative Commons stay quiet and hope that this whole debate will
>>>>  go away if they ignore it?
>>>>
>>>>  - Does anyone at Creative Commons *care* about what people involved in
>>>>  this list think about being so blatantly used, ignored and overruled!
>>>>
>>>>  David
>>>>
>>>>  ---
>>>>
>>>>  http://www.locarecords.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On 4 Aug 2004, at 18:35, Mike Linksvayer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  > Thomas Margoni wrote:
>>>>  >
>>>>  > > I hope David will be wrong, so if anyone knows why there's a new
>>>>  > > name for this license, i hope he/her will post this list, as it
>>>  > > > is still on
>>>>  > >
>>>>  >
>>>>  > http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/4234
>>>>  > http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/4236
>>>>  > http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/4303
>>>>  >
>>>>  > --
>>>>  >   Mike Linksvayer
>>>>  >   http://creativecommons.org/learn/aboutus/people#21
>>>>  > _______________________________________________
>>>>  > cc-sampling mailing list
>>>>  > cc-sampling at lists.ibiblio.org
>>>>  > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/cc-sampling
>>>>  >
>>>>
>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>--
>>© © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © © ©
>>AHOY THERE! I have changed my e-mail address and it is now -
>>
>>mark / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>
>>
>>
>>My old address at markhosler at charter.net is no longer being used.
>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>
>Glenn Otis Brown
>Executive Director
>Creative Commons
>glenn at creativecommons.org
>+1.415.946.3065 (telephone)
>+1.415.336.1433 (mobile)
>------------------------------------
>(cc) Some rights reserved.
>------------------------------------


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AHOY THERE! I have changed my e-mail address and it is now -

mark / negativland <markhosler at bellsouth.net>


My old address at markhosler at charter.net is no longer being used.



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