[b-hebrew] Relationship of כרך, 'wrap around, surround', to כרר?

Isaac Fried if at math.bu.edu
Tue Jul 9 12:19:13 EDT 2013


1. I am not sure where Klein gets his etymologies.

2. It is not entirely clear what the תכריך TA-KRIYK of Esther  
8:15 is. It is accepted to mean a band or a sash or a wrap. In  
Mishnaic Hebrew, and in spoken Hebrew, the act כרך KARAK came to  
mean 'to wind or wrap around'.

3. A Hebrew root can not mean something as complex as 'go around'. In  
my opinion the root KRK is a variant of the roots XRG, XRK, XRQ
חרג חרך חרק

4. I believe the Hebrew root to be a compound of uni-literal roots,  
thus KRK = K-R-K, with the uni-literal root R indicating that KRK  
refers to a material state of several bodies.

5. In my opinion גלגל GALGAL, 'wheel', is the compound GAL-GAL,  
namely two (many?) hills, one hill up and one hill down touching the  
ground.

6. Possibly, in his many כרכורים KIRKURIYM, King David  
occasionally also whirled around, but KARKAR is not specifically  
'turn around', but rather 'hop around'. My Arabic dictionary says on  
KRKR كركر that it is 'pile up, drive together'.

In my opinion כר KAR is a variant of הר HAR, 'mound'.

7. I think we should leave "Akkadian" and its "dictionaries" alone.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Jul 9, 2013, at 6:20 AM, Stewart Felker wrote:

> You may realize this, but my post was mainly an attempt to  
> understand KLEIN's logic/language - not necessarily my own. I  
> couldn't understand what he meant that it is a "properly a  
> shortened form of base כרר."
>
> That being said, karkar does not exclusively mean "dance, leap,  
> move vigorously and rhythmically." I think that the other Semitic  
> cognates may suggest a more generalized meaning - something like  
> "go around"...cf. the Ugaritic and Arabic I cited; PbH 'go around';  
> also Ge'ez kʷrkʷr 'roll, roll around', and forms 'rotation',  
> 'turning round'.
>
> The question is not whether כרך is the root word behind  
> תכריך (which it is obviously is).
>
> You said "Hebrew words 'come from' a root, not from each other."  
> I'm pretty sure you don't really mean what you seem to be saying  
> here (considering the implications for the existence of a language  
> that evolves). Do you merely mean to say that כרך is a primitive  
> root ('irreducible', we might say)? Because evidence of some  
> affinity with a probable root *k(V)r - "go around" (> "wrap,  
> surround") - suggests otherwise.
>
> Perhaps the situation is illuminated by reference to another common  
> Semitic word. Leslau notes that Ge'ez ʾangallaga, "assemble, come  
> together" is "an abbreviated root from ʾan-glgl", 'congregation,  
> assembly, council' (cf. Tigre gälgäla 'gather'). The sense of  
> development here is perhaps from 'rolling together'. Cf. גלגל  
> and its cognates - v. 'to roll', n. 'wheel'.
>
> Finally...are you doubting whether Akk. kababu can mean 'to  
> roast' (specifically), or are you doubting whether kababu means  
> anything like that at all? (Or, perhaps, are you doubting whether  
> it even exists?) Because it is well-attested with these meanings.  
> Here is the entry in CAD: http://i.imgur.com/hU53ghb.png.
>
>
> Stewart Felker
> Univ. of Memphis

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