[b-hebrew] Hb 1:12

Pere Porta pporta7 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 9 06:29:28 EDT 2011


No, I meant of some other euphemisms consisting of the change of one (or
more) letter to one (or more) letter... in the line of "namwt / tamwt" in Hb
1:12.

Forgive me, Petr: are you from the Chech republic?


Hearty,

Pere Porta

2011/9/9 Petr Tomasek <tomasek at etf.cuni.cz>

> On Fri, Sep 09, 2011 at 06:44:41AM +0200, Pere Porta wrote:
> > Thank you, Petr.
> > And now, please, three questions:
> >
> > 1. Do you know of some other similar cases within the Hebrew bible?
>
> Do you mean of the "tikkunei soferim"? As I now have very little time
> (until
> may dissertation is complete) I'll point just to some literature:
>
>  * Carmel McCarthy. The Tiqqune Sopherim and Other Theological Corrections.
> Göttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht 1981.
>
>  * W. Emery Barnes. "Ancient Corrections in the Text of the Old Testament
> (Tiḳḳun Sopherim)", in: The Canon and Masorah of the Hebrew Bible: An
> Introductory Reader. Sid Z. Leiman (ed.). New York: Ktav 1974, pp. 379-406.
>
>
> > 2. Which then should the right meaning/translation be:
> > a) We will not die
> > b) You, who never die or You, who are eternal...
>
> What do you mean by "right"? I really don't know what "the original" was,
> but on the other hand, if this is really an euphemism of some ancient
> scribes,
> the question is: shoud we "untranslate" this euphemism and go back to the
> original form or should we translate it as it is but make a footnote:
> "beware, this is an euphemism!"? This is pretty up to the approach and
> decision of the translater and neither is (in my opinion) wrong...
>
> > 3. And also, please, what does this text at the bottom of your mail
> mean?:
> >
> > EA 355:001  DU DU DU DU
> > EA 355:002  TU TU TU TU
> > EA 355:003  NU NU NU NU NU NU NU
> > EA 355:004  NA NA NA NA NA
>
> Nobody knows for sure :-). It is take from the internet El-Amarna letters
> archive.
> It can possibly be some scribal excercise or eventually some magic
> formula...
> ... I found it just funny, because actually this is what is said to small
> children
> (in some cultures) who don't speak yet...
>
> :-)
>
> > Heartly,
> >
> > Pere Porta
> > (Barcelona, Catalonia, Northeastern Spain)
> >
> > 2011/9/8 Petr Tomasek <tomasek at etf.cuni.cz>
> >
> > > >
> > > > Can someone on this list cast some light on why such a translation
> has
> > > been
> > > > possible?
> > > > Maybe NFMWT has been mistaken for a Nif'al Participle in the line of
> > > NFDWN,
> > > > (male) who is judged (2Sa 19:10) or NFKWN, (male) who is decided (Gn
> > > 41:32)
> > > > or NFBWN, (male) who discerns (Gn 41:33)?
> > > >
> > > > Pere Porta
> > >
> > > There is rabbinic tradition of so-called "tiqunei sopherim" (תיקוני
> > > סופרים),
> > > (also mentioned in the "apparatus criticus" of BHS) which says that
> > > originally
> > > it should have read "לא תמות", but the scribes changed this into "לא
> נמות"
> > > -
> > > as an euphemism, to avoid an idea that the God could die.
> > >
> > > This place is from the Qumral biblical fragment, so that we have no
> > > evidence
> > > for what had been in the text originally.
> > >
> > > I personally consider the "tiqunei sopherim" as a rather _haggadic_
> > > tradition
> > > and whether there really was such a change should be proved for every
> such
> > > a place.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, I think that euphemisms and euphemistic changes to
> the
> > > Biblical text makes much sense if we consider that the text was read to
> > > public
> > > and there was an effort to avoid meanings which could be understood by
> > > the public in a wrong way, or may sound offending
> > > (see also qerē/ketīḇ places, such as עפלים/תחורים and so on).
> > >
> > > P.T.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Petr Tomasek <http://www.etf.cuni.cz/~tomasek>
> > > Jabber: butrus at jabbim.cz
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > EA 355:001  DU DU DU DU
> > > EA 355:002  TU TU TU TU
> > > EA 355:003  NU NU NU NU NU NU NU
> > > EA 355:004  NA NA NA NA NA
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pere Porta
> >
>
> --
>  Petr Tomasek <http://www.etf.cuni.cz/~tomasek>
> Jabber: butrus at jabbim.cz
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> EA 355:001  DU DU DU DU
> EA 355:002  TU TU TU TU
> EA 355:003  NU NU NU NU NU NU NU
> EA 355:004  NA NA NA NA NA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>


-- 
Pere Porta


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