[b-hebrew] Fw: Re: Hireq & sere

Isaac Fried if at math.bu.edu
Wed Apr 13 18:29:59 EDT 2011


1. This faint doubling holds for every consonant between two vowels,  
and it has nothing to do with the presence or the absence of a  
dagesh. It is present in HIZMAN-NU, as well as in HIZMIYN-NU.

2. I am sorry, but I can not even remotely believe that this dagesh  
is "caused by the assimilation of two consonants into one".

3. There is a dagesh in the N of LANU, as expected after a patax.

4. I am sorry, but I can not even remotely believe that the ancient  
Hebrews deliberately doubled in their mouth a singly written  
consonant. Present day Hebrew speakers and readers don't do it.


Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Apr 13, 2011, at 2:44 PM, Uri Hurwitz wrote:

> --- On Wed, 4/13/11, Isaac Fried <if at math.bu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>  < I think that what you mean by "hearing" the dagesh is
>  the faint natural doubling of any consonant,>..
>
>      Yes, precisely; thus you anwered your own previous
>  challanges about the presenence of the Dagesh in the spoken
>  language. It is not prevalent, but it can be heard, as in
>  the example I offered.
>
>  < The dagesh in HIZMANU, 'we invited, we ordered', follows
>  a patax, and is there as expected >
>
>    The Dagesh in this case is caused by assimilation
>  of two consonants into one. In this case they are:
>  1. the final Nun of, the  root (Z M N),
>  and 2. the Nun of the the verbal suffix in perf. pl. -...nu .
>    Identical roots this respect are LUN, LYN, Y$N etc.
>
>    When letters are were assimilated or dropped, they were
>  often compensated by emphasizing, or doubling the following
>  consonant. For example: the many verbs with N as an initial
>  consonant of the root in Qal, Imperf.
>
>
>       Uri Hurwitz                            Great Neck, NY
>
>
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>  here N, situated between two vowels, here A and U. One hears it in  
> AB-BIY, 'my father', AX-XIY, 'my brother', etc. Those who say they  
> don't hear it need to pay closer attention.
>
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2011, at 8:29 AM, Uri Hurwitz wrote:
>
>
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>     Just say in Heb. "we invited" and, for comparison, "they invited".
>  You'll hear the dagesh allright in the first.
>
>     Uri  
> Hurwitz                                                      Great  
> Neck, NY
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 4/13/11, Isaac Fried <if at math.bu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Really, how can a dagesh be "pronounced"?
>
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2011, at 7:42 AM, Uri Hurwitz wrote:
>
>
> the Dagesh in the sceond consonant is not pronounced
>
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