[b-hebrew] Initial Consonant Clusters in Biblical Hebrew

Stoney Breyer stoneyb at touchwoodcreative.com
Wed Jun 16 11:56:08 EDT 2010


Looks to me like a pretty straightforward transliteration of whatever CG
prototype gave rise to OE theodisc, ModG deutsch, ModE dutch. For LOTR fans,
it's the same root (without the adjectival ending) Tolkien uses for the name
of the king of the Rohirrim, Theoden. It would have meant something (or
practically everything!) along the lines of 'popular', 'vernacular',
'folkish' or, broadly, 'us' as opposed to (OE wealisc, ModE welsh, ModG
welsch, meaning) 'foreign' or 'them'. More likely, your old Italians took
over the name those folks gave themselves, with a vocalic ending to
accommodate Italian paradigms. I'd be surprised if terms in 'german-' came
in before the renaissance.

I can't speak to Dan tysk, but that looks likely, too.


-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Christian
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:08 PM
To: K Randolph
Cc: B-Hebrew
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Initial Consonant Clusters in Biblical Hebrew

Italian 'tedesco' is actually a very good example. Thanks Karl. Italian
refers to Germany as germania and germanico and germanici would be the
expected way to speak about the Germans. But, as you note, we get this
irregular 'tedesco' form. I don't if this is true but I was taught that
'tedesco' in some old Italian dialect meant something like 'friend' or
'comrade' and the neighbouring Germans were considered allies and given this
nickname that stuck.

James Christian

On 15 June 2010 18:16, K Randolph <kwrandolph at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jim:
>
> On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 6:53 AM, <JimStinehart at aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yitzhak Sapir:
> >
> > You just made my point.  Outside of the Bible, there's  n-o-t-h-i-n-g
in
> > the secular history of the ancient world that documents use of the word
> > Kasdim, or anything similar to Kasdim, to refer to the Kaldu/Chaldeans.
> >  That's
> > my point exactly.  If people learn nothing else from this thread, this
> > thread
> > will have done invaluable service.
> >
> > Isn't it a bit scary that scholars consistently "forget" to mention that
> > there is no inscription from the ancient world [outside of the Bible]
> that
> > refers to the Chaldeans as Kasdim?
> >
>
> In Italian they refer to a people known as "Tedesco" which is mentioned by
> no other language or country. Isn't it scary that no other language or
> people knows about this people? There is n-o-t-h-i-n-g in other Romance
> languages (French, Spanish, Romanian, etc.) that even remotely resembles
> this name.
>
> Now wouldn't it be a great service to show how the Scandinavians learned
> their word "Tysk" from the Italians?
>
> To the best of my knowledge, no scholar has ever attempted a serious
> comparison of Tedesco with Tysk as mentioned here. Isn't that a bit scary?
>
> If anyone mentioned the theory as proposed in the above three paragraphs,
> he
> would be the laughing stock of the scholarly world, especially were he to
> word it in the terms used above. At least in this example, the
> Scandinavians
> and Italians refer to the same people.
>
> Now we come to your theory.
>
> >
> > 3.  To the best of my knowledge, no scholar has ever attempted a serious
> > comparison of K$DYM at Genesis 11: 28, 31 to Karaduniash [as I set forth
> on
> > this thread].  Isn't that a bit scary?
> >
> > Jim Stinehart
> > Evanston, Illinois
>
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
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> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
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